Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 16, 2012 2:59:19 GMT
Escaping poverty is difficult without the over-privileges of nepotism and cronyism which sought or unsought accompany every middle-class, white male. Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe
Frederick Douglass
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 16, 2012 3:02:33 GMT
How is justice served by taking from one man the justly earned reward of his labor, and giving it to another who did not? It is unacceptable that someone can work full time — and work hard — and not be able to lift themselves out of poverty
Sherrod Brown
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 16, 2012 3:12:19 GMT
Justice, one of the cardinal virtues, is not served by making man a slave to a state or using the fast and loose language of the workers' paradise, society. "Each man rendered his just do due" The working poor under laissez-faire capitalism are more obviously slaves (wage slaves) than are men slaves to a state in which they participate; being of the people, for the people and by the people. Yet the working poor are at least better off than the unemployed and the underemployed.
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Post by rembrandt on Oct 16, 2012 4:48:14 GMT
Escaping poverty is difficult without the over-privileges of nepotism and cronyism which sought or unsought accompany every middle-class, white male. Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe
Frederick Douglass I agree, why give more power to the military-industrial-congressional-bankster complex? I don't think that the organized mob of government vanguard is the answer. By the way, white males are poor too so you can put your race card away. You still have failed, and now failed sadly to demonstrate that your personal economic and political ideology is the "best fit" for Masonry. If you think that it is, could you give a short note on how to make people participate in your Masonic utopia?
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Post by rembrandt on Oct 16, 2012 4:49:30 GMT
Justice, one of the cardinal virtues, is not served by making man a slave to a state or using the fast and loose language of the workers' paradise, society. "Each man rendered his just do due" The working poor under laissez-faire capitalism are more obviously slaves (wage slaves) than are men slaves to a state in which they participate; being of the people, for the people and by the people. Yet the working poor are at least better off than the unemployed and the underemployed. Yes, grammar nazi. I made a mistake. I don't spend much time composing answers to your tirades. In the mean time, I am working poor and doing quite well.
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 16, 2012 6:30:05 GMT
You still have failed, and now failed sadly to demonstrate that your personal economic and political ideology is the "best fit" for Masonry. If you think that it is, could you give a short note on how to make people participate in your Masonic utopia? Short note: Brotherhood. Personal? Utopia? It is a reality for many millions!
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Post by maximus on Oct 16, 2012 13:32:22 GMT
How is justice served by taking from one man the justly earned reward of his labor, and giving it to another who did not? It is unacceptable that someone can work full time — and work hard — and not be able to lift themselves out of poverty
Sherrod Brown Why is it the other person's responsibility to lift him out of poverty? Besides, no one of any worth stays on minimum wage past the initial probationary period.
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Post by maximus on Oct 16, 2012 14:00:40 GMT
Escaping poverty is difficult without the over-privileges of nepotism and cronyism which sought or unsought accompany every middle-class, white male. Ah, so you hate white males? How racist of you.Corporatism is not capitalism. Corporatism is the destruction of the free market and the creation of corporate monopolies achieved through the regulatory and monopoly power of strong central government. Your argument is invalid. "People might not get all they work for in this world, but they must certainly work for all they get." Frederick Douglass Amazing how you can misuse quotes relating to slavery and compare todays working environment to that unjust institution. For your comparison to be valid, one must be indentured to a particular job or profession. That one is not shows the tenuousness of your argument.
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Post by rembrandt on Oct 16, 2012 15:19:39 GMT
You still have failed, and now failed sadly to demonstrate that your personal economic and political ideology is the "best fit" for Masonry. If you think that it is, could you give a short note on how to make people participate in your Masonic utopia? Short note: Brotherhood. Personal? Utopia? It is a reality for many millions! You mentioned nothing of getting everyone on board. How do you accomplish it?
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Post by maximus on Oct 16, 2012 16:36:53 GMT
"The association-whatever it be, church, nation, or penny club-exists for the individual, and no the individual for the association." - Auberon Herbert
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Post by maximus on Oct 16, 2012 19:03:12 GMT
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Post by maximus on Oct 16, 2012 19:04:06 GMT
Short note: Brotherhood. Personal? Utopia? It is a reality for many millions! You mentioned nothing of getting everyone on board. How do you accomplish it? There is but one way: The threat or use of force.
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Post by rembrandt on Oct 16, 2012 23:41:45 GMT
That has been the way of that philosophy since its inception. I hope that someone could come up with a better way.
Are there many people moving from evil capitalist countries to workers' paradises?
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 17, 2012 0:23:48 GMT
Why is it the other person's responsibility to lift him out of poverty? Brotherhood. Besides, no one of any worth stays on minimum wage past the initial probationary period. No one of any worth? Very telling! Poverty is an anomaly to rich people; it is very difficult to make out why people who want dinner do not ring the bell
Walter Bagehot
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 17, 2012 0:27:20 GMT
Short note: Brotherhood.
Personal? Utopia? It is a reality for many millions! You mentioned nothing of getting everyone on board. How do you accomplish it?Human nature being a fickle abstraction, we are never going to get 100% agreement. Those who can't abide by majority decisions are free to opt out and take what slim pickings and cold comforts there are outside society.
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 17, 2012 0:36:55 GMT
Ah, so you hate white males? How racist of you. Hate??? To acknowlege racism is not racist. Corporatism is not capitalism.
Corporatism is the destruction of the free market and the creation of corporate monopolies achieved through the regulatory and monopoly power of strong central government. Laissez-faire capitalism leads to monopoly. Your argument is invalid. How so? "People might not get all they work for in this world, but they must certainly work for all they get."
Frederick Douglass
Amazing how you can misuse quotes relating to slavery and compare todays working environment to that unjust institution. For your comparison to be valid, one must be indentured to a particular job or profession. That one is not shows the tenuousness of your argument. Douglas said that on the twenty-fourth anniversary of Emancipation in the District of Columbia: Exploitation did not end with slavery.
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 17, 2012 0:41:41 GMT
More fruits of the GFC. The examples I used seem to be weathering the crisis better than others.
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Post by rembrandt on Oct 17, 2012 0:43:12 GMT
You mentioned nothing of getting everyone on board. How do you accomplish it? Human nature being a fickle abstraction, we are never going to get 100% agreement. Those who can't abide by majority decisions are free to opt out and take what slim pickings and cold comforts there are outside society. Are you saying that they should be exiled for not wanting to be part of the workers' paradise? So agree or be kicked out, that is very free isn't it. Just due indeed. How long before you need a gulag?
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Post by rembrandt on Oct 17, 2012 0:45:17 GMT
I have seen videos of some nations in the EU. They don't seem to be weathering the crisis well, Nobel Peace Prize and all. Brotherhood, to whom? Everyone or to Masons? If to everyone, why Masonry at all?
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 17, 2012 0:45:29 GMT
There is but one way: The threat or use of force. And how would your vociferous minority enforce adherence to its Libertarian Utopia?
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