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Post by whistler on Nov 5, 2004 10:13:00 GMT
This Saturday I complete my year as first principle of our Holy Royal Arch Chapter. Let me tell you it is a most powerful and impressive order, It has a much more gentle feeling then in a craft degree. Without giving anything away I can say that like the craft degree we are hoodwinked for a time during the entry sequence. The splendour when the hoodwink is removed is unbelievable. I have seen squabbles re is it a side degree, and maybe in England the ritual will be changed. Forget all about the politics it is a truely dramatic beautiful degree. It totally absorbs one If any Bro gets the chance to join a Royal Arch Chapter Take it
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Agent J
Member
On a Mission from God...
Posts: 127
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Post by Agent J on Nov 5, 2004 10:33:59 GMT
Congratulations Bro whistler, it is indeed a very powerful ritual, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it!
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 5, 2004 10:40:27 GMT
Bro and E Comp Whistler.
I feel that the changes to RA under UGLE will only do good and emphasise the merits of this Degree in its own right and not as the spurious "Completion of the (Craft) Third" which was a historical compromise between the Antients and Moderns and which I and lost of others here simply did not accept.
You are lucky that in your type of Freemasonry there is proper study and preparation of candiates before Degrees are confered, not alas the case here in UGLE where a man could go from Initiate to RA Companion in about 6 months, and I have seen this, and he not even be sure of the EA Signs!
RA, as well as being a wonderful Degree for its own sake is of course the gateway to others such as KTs, R&SM (Cryptic) , Allied, etc.
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 5, 2004 10:45:11 GMT
Well I am a PZ and I am still trying to get the hang of it.
As you get older the ability to retain ritual seems to diminish in direct proportion to the increasing years.
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Post by waynecowley on Nov 5, 2004 14:46:13 GMT
Congrats whistler
Steve - re your point about the changes in the RA ritual in England and Wales, do you think we will ever see the re-introduction of the "passing of the Veils" or the Excellent Master degree?
They are both things I have heard of but not been able to find out what they may entail without running the risk of contravening the charge about unduly obtaining the secrets of a superior degree - though as an RA Companion would it be seen as a superior degree?
I'm confused
Wayne
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Nov 5, 2004 18:57:11 GMT
Are they additional or side degrees or superior degrees ? Surely craft is the main and (superior ?) degree as without this uou cannot gain entry to any others.
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Post by whistler on Nov 5, 2004 21:46:57 GMT
I can't imagine a Royal Arch degree without the excellant Master Degree as a prelude- so Wayne I simply can't comment. Taylorsman I haven't read the stuff about the changes because they don't effect me Haven't thought much about the progression and side degree aspects. The only time I notice something a bit different, is on Special Lodge occasions when we are invited to wear our highest regalia - and a PM Jewel is higher the HRA, so one never gets to wear the HRA Kit out side a HRA Meeting. Both my wife and I are just so pleased some kind soul invited us to join the HRA Degree. My Wife became a Principle before I did, She found it as powerful and enjoyable as I have I had planned just to sit in the background and observe, but found you can only get away with that for so long... you are correct . Wayne another thing the progression or otherwise are not an issue. The Excellant Master and HRA couplet, are complete experiences in their own right and Bill I am sure you are as absorb with what you do in HRA as I am For those who "feel" their Masonry in my view the "Feel" of an HRA Meeting is much Softer then a Craft Meeting - any other brave Poster like to comment.
P.S. to the Mods - it is really good to be able to discuss esoteric reality without being stomped on from on high - Thank you
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2004 10:30:44 GMT
I do hope that in times to come "Passing the Veils" does come back into English RA , (it is still practiced in Bristol and of course in Scotland). In time I hope to attend a Scots Chapter and participate in this piece of Ritual.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2004 13:59:09 GMT
[quote author=Taylorsman I feel that the changes to RA under UGLE will only do good and emphasise the merits of this Degree in its own right and not as the spurious "Completion of the (Craft) Third" which was a historical compromise between the Antients and Moderns and which I and lost of others here simply did not accept. .[/quote]
I cannot agree with taylorsman on the changes to the RA being good for it, I think it is yet more dumbing down of a truly beutiful Degree, and it takes us further away from the possibility of re-introdcing the 'passing of the veils'.
The main reason I feel these changes are going to prove ultimately disastrous is I have spoken to at least 10 senior Companions and they are adamant that if the changes go ahead they will be resigning from The RA, this of course would be simialr to the USA election in as much that 55million people (approx) voted for G.Bush but nearly the same voted against! And theres nothing they can do about it for 4 years!
The changes to The Royal Arch have not been fully thought out it is another case of Northampton coming up with an idea and pushing it through without proper consultation. And believe me many Companions are prepared to vote with thier feet, because they will not sit by and agree to something they believe in.
I am not against certain aspects of his proposals but ultimately I beleive it is the wrong way forward to keep dumbing down ritual. I do beleive the RA stands alone as its own degree and not the 'completion' of the 3rd as UGLE have stated since the union, this of course has everything to do with money and nothing to do with Masonic 'facts'. And UGLE is so alarmed at lack of new members (looking at how successful other Side Degrees/orders are its not surprising) they are desperately seeking change to stimulate growth (and therefore income). I think its going to be a disaster.
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2004 14:23:16 GMT
Fair comment Middlepillar . There are two aspects to Lord Northampton's proposals as I see it. Doing away with all the nonsense about "Being the Completion of the (Craft) Third Degree", and thus bringing UGLE RA into line with other Constitutions. On that I feel we are in accord. The problem lies in the second part , of changing the Lectures. As long as Chapters are truely allowed to chose for themselves then it should not be too bad, but I fear the same Hobson's Choice will be given as happened with the Penalties in Craft. Incidentally I still maintain that there should be one clear year from Raising to Exaltation, not a mere 4 weeks and I would NOT Propose or Second an MM into any RA Chapter I belonged to unless he had been so for at least one year. However, I feel that RA will weather the storm if only for the reason that to become a member of most of those Higher Degrees that are so successful at present it is necessary to be a Companion in RA and I understand to maintain one's membership even if not active therein, so SGC and RA Provinces will still get their cash if that is what they are REALLY interested in.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2004 14:30:34 GMT
But there lies the problem Taylorsman, 'all the time Chapters have a right to choose'.
You know as well as I do 4-5 years down the line it will happen 'you must do it this way'. And that is basically where The members I have spoken to who are anti feel it is the beginning of the end for them.
You are quite right in the first part of your statement, we totally agree and I also agree it would be much better for a candidate to wait for a full year before joining Royal Arch, but there again we agree it woud be best for a Brother to be Advanced in to the mark first before exhaltation into RA, dont we?
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2004 14:42:33 GMT
Indeed we do Middle Pillar. I did it Mark, RAM, then RA, although one could leave the RAM till afterwards and join RA after Mark. I have a horrible feeling that what you say will be the case and in its usual "Top Down" manner UGLW/SGC will impose a solution and the old style Lectures will go the way of the old Penalties in Craft. I'm afraid that given the way that things are run in English Freemasonry there is nothing the Ordinary Companion can do about this, but that is a topic for another Thread I feel.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2004 15:39:52 GMT
That is why I feel it is all so unfortunate and why there should be a 'proper' discussion on the future of the RA. After all its been the way it has (except for the abominal changes to the Mystical lecture) for quite a few years so whats the rush? If Companions feel changes have been fully thought out and feel they have been properly consulted maybe the changes would felect the feelings of all the RA rather than the minority (IMHO).
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2004 17:16:44 GMT
As I will NOT be pulled for "relevance" as is the case elsewhere, I will digress slightly.
UGLE/SGC is resorting to the same shallow approach that much of British and US management are using these days, "The Fast Fix". Managers no longer play Chess, calculating and evaluating all the possible outcomes of a plan of action but rather play snakes and ladders, taking a "fire fighting" approach, being reactive not procative and waiting for something to happen rather than managing and guiding the situation.
Thus UGLE is presented with an apparent crisis in RA and reacts a bit too swiftly. Some of the changes make sense and bring English RA into line with the other Constitutions. I have already mentioned one change that all the Companions I have spoken to like, and the other is to remove the need for a Companion to be an Installed Master in Craft to become J, but it would appear to be the changes to the Lectures which are the stumbling block and I feel these could have been left alone and if needed an explanatory booklet could have been given to the newly Exalted to clarify the difficult points.
Maybe it woud have been better to have held a Commission on this involving Ordinary Companions and Principals elected by Chapters, as well as "the great and the good" and take about 3 to 5 years to go into ALL the aspects of RA both in itself and its relations to other Degrees, other RA Constitutions etc
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Post by Doric on Nov 6, 2004 18:03:39 GMT
, and he not even be sure of the EA Signs! I've seen a good few Grand Officers not sure of the craft signs also! RA is a most impressive ceremony, and a degree I would recommend any Master Mason to take
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Post by whistler on Nov 6, 2004 21:33:16 GMT
Having started this thread reporting my completion of my year as 1st Principle, due to the a combination of unusual circumstance I am in the position for another year. Whilst sorry about the circumstances these things happen sometimes. For myself I am pleased, like us all it is good to have a second year in an office, ones perfomance always can be worked on. Reading your debate re your changes remember I can only guess and assume from reading etc exactly what you do now, and what changes may be made. In our workings the words "completion of the third degree" is not mentioned. It is only on reflection that one can see the HRA is a little different, I refered before to regalia of an IPM being higher than the HRA. In our order we do not have to belong to HRA to enter the 18th but to get into a higher degree one must belong to 18th, so for us HRA does not effect progression. What ever is done to your ritual, the depth and beauty of the HRA degree will shine through. there is so much to study. Last year we received a reading of a lecture from an English Malecraft Mason entitled "Where is it we meet" the next a lecture on the " Tau and tetrgramaton" - more different aspects would be hard to imagine Also our HRA Subs are $NZ6.00 a year so nobody is eager for our money. Re the veils, for us those are so important, if billmcelligott, or taylorsman wished to visit or HRA lodge, when being proved, they would be asked if they had passed through the veils and if they said No, they would not be admitted
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2004 22:19:47 GMT
[quote author=whistler Re the veils, for us those are so important, if billmcelligott, or taylorsman wished to visit or HRA lodge, when being proved, they would be asked if they had passed through the veils and if they said No, they would not be admitted[/quote]
This is indeed different Whistler, because even if you have not passed the veils, as all UGLE RA masons have not, you can still visit and participate in Bristol Workings (under the UGLE) which is the only place under our constitution that is allowed or permitted to still practise this beautiful ceremony.
On a much more happy note, Whistler I congratulate you on your exhilarating year as Z and I know you will probably enjoy your 2nd year equally if not more. I really believe the Mystical lecture is the finest piece of ritual in masonry bar one (I mean the original Mystical lecture which is approx 3 pages longer than the one now practised in UGLE). In our RA it is expected the Z delivers the Mystical lecture. The one that I consider to be the most beautiful is The Royal master degree which is the 2nd degree of four in the Royal & Select Masters. (I think Taylorsman might agree with this statement?). A truly exhilarating degree and one if you are delivering the ritual really lifts you to another level.
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 7, 2004 0:18:42 GMT
With you 100% there Middle Pillar! I look forward to my own turn to perform it in a few years time, God Willing.
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