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Post by dragonseeker on Jun 6, 2007 14:52:34 GMT
Hi there. So, I'm just getting into masonry, I've been to one lodge stated meeting the other night(my first time in a masonic lodge) and I was surprised that they didn't allow women. One of the members mentioned co-masonry, and it got my interest. based on what I've read, co-masonry takes a more esoteric approach to the work, which I like....I've sent away to LDH for membership info, but I am concerned about recognition if I chose that path. How much of an issue is it, really? What would I be in for? thanks
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bod
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UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Jun 6, 2007 15:15:55 GMT
We do have some LDH members, and until recently we had a very knowledgeable guy called Steve who used to be a UGLE member and who has now joined LDH, they are the best to advise on who you can visit from an LDH perspective. From a male-craft (UGLE) point of view you would only be able to visit a UGLE or UGLE amity lodge if you are a member of a grand lodge in amity with UGLE, unfortunately this rules out all of the female-craft and co-masonry orders, its only a big issue if you have friends who are malecraft members and you wanted to visit their lodges and vice versa. my opnion on it is that it is an admin matter more than anything else, and apart from the visiting bit has no real impact. I'm sure there will be others along soon to give their point of view!
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 6, 2007 23:40:56 GMT
Greetings Dragonseeker!! I'm a Co-Mason from a US Obedience but I hang out here ;D Depends on your definition of issue, I suppose. It's not much of an issue to me but it's scads and scads of drama to others I'm not sure what you mean by "in for". The ritual and teachings are almost identical, though Co-Masonry preserves a good many practices that have been discarded by a number (but not all) of Obediences. We also *tend* to be more esoteric and disciplined but . . . I'm right when I say that and I'm wrong when I say that. Because every lodge is different. Even if you compare lodges within the same Obedience, you will find differences. So to say *all* Co-Masonic lodges are one way and all nonCo-Masonic lodges are another is just wrong. I will, however, admit to a tendency. (thinks a little more) I will tell you a story from my Obedience. There was a fellow pondering, with the help of one of my brothers, a Co-Mason lodge and a Malecraft lodge down the road. He asked if would ruffle anyone's feathers if he "tried" Co-Masonry first; then, if he didn't like it, he would "try" Malecraft Masonry. She advised him to try the Malecraft lodge first, then the Co-Masonic lodge; and that if he does it that way, he won't be disappointed. So he did. And he still sits in lodge with us (though I don't know if he still attends his Malecraft lodge). Good luck to you on your journey
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Post by whistler on Jun 7, 2007 1:29:05 GMT
Hi Dragonseeker, I am a fellow (last time I looked) and have been a Co-mason for over 20 years - The recognition between Malecraft Freemasonry and ours is a major issue for some - Co-masons don't have a problem with Malecraft visiting us - but there is problems from the Malecraft permitting their members to visit and us to visit them. I find Co-Masonry so absorbing that for me it hasn't been a worry. Your comment about esoteric approach in Co-Masonry is correct, though to most Co-masons what outsiders may call esoteric, we call reality. You will certainly find Malecraft Masonry more Matey and social then ours. And as for the seeking of Dragons well most of them have died out now - The older generation certainly had their share of Dragons,if a piece of ritual took longer than she thought it should - you could hear much throat clearing and watch tapping, lots of the old Freemasons were very strict about the performance of ritual - and didn't hesitate to tell newer Freemasons the error of their ways, -- times have changed the Dragons have largely gone Dragonseeker whatever your choice I hope you enjoy Freemasonry as much as I do. HGW
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 7, 2007 5:04:35 GMT
And as for the seeking of Dragons well most of them have died out now . . . Ah, but that's what they want you to think
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Post by dragonseeker on Jun 7, 2007 21:29:17 GMT
Thanks for the replies, I can see how, even at this early stage, the different branches of masonry conflict. When i was at the stated meeting I attended, I asked a lot of questions, one about prince hall masonry, which(at least here in the USA) is predominately black..I'm a black man, and I'd done some reading on the lack of recognition by some lodges here of prince hall masons..the brother told me that the prince hall masons actually didn't want white members, because they were afraid of white members taking over their lodge via sheer numbers, when my own research showed that prince hall masons, while they do have mostly black members, admit anyone regardless of race. I found his answer troubling, because i didn't(and don't) think it true. Also, when we got on the subject of co-masonry, he was downright dismissive of a masonic order allowing women..which is shortsighted at best, women bring a lot to the table on many levels ;D, and anyone who's studied the early history of christianity knows that women played a much larger role than the church will admit to, so I also found his response on that disturbing. for myself, I don't need the whole social club boys will be boys atmosphere, I have my weekly poker game for that; I'm after the knowledge, the growth of spirit. So, I think for me, it's co-masonry, or I may go back to AMORC, as I was a member, albeit briefly. meanwhile, I'll keep learning...
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Post by maat on Jun 7, 2007 23:04:59 GMT
Hello dragonseeker Why don't you seek out a co-masonry group and put the same questions to them? It is so sad to see a true seeker discouraged at such an early stage. But have faith, you have knocked and sooner or later the right door will open for you. I'm rather hoping that you will find Co-M to your liking, obviously I love it and have learned soooo much from it over years. Good Luck in your search and keep us posted. Maat (who has been called 'the dragon' from time to time ;D)
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 8, 2007 5:54:52 GMT
Ma'at's right, Co-Masonry is very much a possibilty for you in the US. The two largest Co-Masonic bodies in the US are my own obedience, The Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry and Le Droit Humain's Americna Federation. You've not mentioned which part of the US you are in but, between the two above mentioned bodies, there could well be a Co-Masonic lodge near you. You sound like a very perceptive fellow. Good luck to you
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bod
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UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Jun 8, 2007 9:04:36 GMT
one thing to remember is that opinions are like bottoms - everyone has one...... Sadly there are many masons who don't engage brain before opening mouth, and manage to express only ignorance and misinformation. Ultimately no one person or organisation speaks for freemasonry - grand Lodges can make pronouncements that affect their jurisdiction, but they cannot make an edict or decision that affects ALL of freemasonry simply because their is no over-arching structure. Whichever obedience you join, enjoy your masonry
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Post by dragonseeker on Jun 8, 2007 22:55:06 GMT
Ma'at's right, Co-Masonry is very much a possibilty for you in the US. The two largest Co-Masonic bodies in the US are my own obedience, The Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry and Le Droit Humain's Americna Federation. You've not mentioned which part of the US you are in but, between the two above mentioned bodies, there could well be a Co-Masonic lodge near you. You sound like a very perceptive fellow. Good luck to you I appreciate the compliment..yep, I'm waiting for a package of info from LDH, and the american co-masonry has a lodge in colorado, I'm in los angeles, I'll give 'em a call and see if they have a lodge here too..thanks to all of you, you're very helpful and nice.
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Post by whistler on Jun 10, 2007 7:35:25 GMT
Dragonseeker Here is another website for you to look at comasonic.net/HGW
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 12, 2007 1:26:04 GMT
Los Angeles? I know several brothers in my Obedience who attend lodge in LA. Would you like me to put you in touch with them?
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Post by tws on Jun 12, 2007 2:45:46 GMT
While my GL does not recognise Female or co-masonic orders, I've never understood the reluctance to recognise women. I came from a HOGD/RR et AC background, which certianly admits women, and I found many who had a much deeper understanding than men. I put it down to the strict interpretation of the obligation.
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Post by whistler on Jun 12, 2007 8:13:52 GMT
Hi TWS and welcome Please translate I came from a HOGD/RR et AC background, Thanks
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Post by penfold on Jun 12, 2007 13:55:52 GMT
i think HOGD is Hermetic order of Golden Dawn, RRetAc may be Rosicrucian, but not sure
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Post by tws on Jun 12, 2007 18:22:22 GMT
Yes, HOGD is the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. RR et AC is the second, or inner order, Ordo Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis. It is, indeed, Rosicrucian.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 13, 2007 15:47:35 GMT
It is, indeed, Rosicrucian Yes, but Crowley-style. Not disparaging the old crow, he was after all a teenage hero of mine. Just not everyone's cup of tea. Or coalbucket of cocaine Apologies if this has been said before, but barring anonymous tip-offs (dontcha just hate anonymous tip-offs?), anyone from a Regular background who is facing an accusation of having attended a Co-Masonic or otherwise Irregular (so-called) meeting, is being so accused on the testimony of another Regular Freemason who was also at the same meeting. Besides, as a Mason's social activities are included among the lawful secrets of a MM, isn't it against the spirit of another MM to betray him on their basis? I'm a bit outspoken for being in favour of the individual against the organisation. I don't wish the GLs any harm exactly, I just wish they'd fall bum-first in a vat of cold custard occassionally. Likewise, I don't encourage or condone inter-Masonic activities, but if you do them, you do them. Vaya con Dios, compadre.
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Post by tws on Jun 13, 2007 20:43:26 GMT
Not Crowley. Through Isreal Regardie via The Ciceros. Thelema is Crowleys path.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 13, 2007 22:09:04 GMT
(peals of happy giggles) Ruff, you've been missed ;D And, y'know, I usually cringe when we start discussing "recognition", 'cause it so often goes soooooooo south. But this one, so far . . . With so many of my fave Bros in one thread, I guess it can't possibly go wrong.
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Post by penfold on Jun 13, 2007 22:12:15 GMT
And, y'know, I usually cringe when we start discussing "recognition", 'cause it so often goes soooooooo south. But this one, so far . . . With so many of my fave Bros in one thread, I guess it can't possibly go wrong. Its encouraging isn't it!
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