Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on May 5, 2007 22:35:46 GMT
Greetings, Yours truly, in this and other questions, accepts that not only the compass but also the square and the ruler are symbols of the Craft. Interestingly enough in the context of several threads of this forum, the former is usually understood to represent the Active or Male Principle, the latter the Passive or Female Principle. However, not the former but rather the latter symbols have more to do with rules and regulations. Of course, as has been indicated in yet another parallel thread here, all manifestations require intimate, immediate co-existence and interaction of both Principles. Rules and regulations are manifest. Disregarding your puerile fantasy of passive females, (to which you keep returning), what is your point?
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Post by lihin on May 6, 2007 8:02:17 GMT
(big snip) Maria Deraismes (1828-1894) Georges Martin (1844-1916) Maria Deraismes was a journalist and fighter for the rights of women and children and Dr. Georges Martin was a Senator, a General Councillor for the Dept of the Seine and a Municipal Councillor of Paris who undertook campaigns in favour of:
• the civic and political rights of women • the defence of the rights of oppressed children • opposition to clerical intolerance • the establishment of a neutral school respecting the ideas of everyone. (big snip) The obvious point is that in yours truly's humble opinion, initiation, regardless of gender, initiatic Orders in general and Freemasonry in particular have to do, in contrast to the quoted objectives, with symbolics, not with politics. Traditional Freemasonry is something different from politicised organisations like the Grand Orient of France since about 1840 and Le Droit Humain. It is interesting to clearly see this contrast here at MFoL.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on May 6, 2007 9:12:51 GMT
I am member of Grande Oriente d'Italia, which is often charged with sliding into politics.
Regarding the "progress", or the improvement of humankind, I notice that this is the inheritance of the (French) Positivism: in the old rituals there was no mention of that. And on purpose: an initiate should be aware of the fatherhood of God and, consequently, of the brotherhood of humankind, so he should naturally be active for the benefit of the people.
He should do that, however, as individual; Freemasonry must refrain from intervening. Otherwise the Order will doubtless fall into the profanity.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on May 6, 2007 11:16:42 GMT
(big snip) Maria Deraismes (1828-1894) Georges Martin (1844-1916) Maria Deraismes was a journalist and fighter for the rights of women and children and Dr. Georges Martin was a Senator, a General Councillor for the Dept of the Seine and a Municipal Councillor of Paris who undertook campaigns in favour of:
• the civic and political rights of women • the defence of the rights of oppressed children • opposition to clerical intolerance • the establishment of a neutral school respecting the ideas of everyone. (big snip) The obvious point is that in yours truly's humble opinion, initiation, regardless of gender, initiatic Orders in general and Freemasonry in particular have to do, in contrast to the quoted objectives, with symbolics, not with politics.
Traditional Freemasonry is something different from politicised organisations like the Grand Orient of France since about 1840 and Le Droit Humain. It is interesting to clearly see this contrast here at MFoL.lihin / nihil* You somehow manage to continually disappoint me. Your earlier point was far from obvious as you have only now introduced the sorry 'substance' of your objection. All you had written in that earlier, inane and perplexing post was: Greetings, Yours truly, in this and other questions, accepts that not only the compass but also the square and the ruler are symbols of the Craft. Interestingly enough in the context of several threads of this forum, the former is usually understood to represent the Active or Male Principle, the latter the Passive or Female Principle. However, not the former but rather the latter symbols have more to do with rules and regulations. Of course, as has been indicated in yet another parallel thread here, all manifestations require intimate, immediate co-existence and interaction of both Principles. Rules and regulations are manifest. Returning to your latest post, would you have blackballed Maria Deraismes and Georges Martin because of their social consciences and public service? I believe they would have been great assets to their lodge and I shudder to think of how Nihilistic* and apathetic Freemasonry would be now if such fine pillars of society had been routinely excluded (see cartoon). Why single out LDH? It is far from being alone in having such distinguished Brethren: There have been Kings, Presidents, Statesmen, Philanthropists, Human Rights Advocates, Civil Rights Leaders, Revolutionaries and others, which various Obediences have been proud to have had as members, so I am still somewhat unclear as to the point you are trying to make regarding LDH. I am reminded of the Final Charge in the Third Degree, when we were each told, ' To improve the morals and correct the manners of men in society must be your constant care.' With this injunction in mind, one can scarcely criticise Brethren for advocating the practice of Masonic principles, whether within the Craft or beyond, provided they do so as individuals (where a lodge or grand lodge is drawn to support some charity or other worthy cause, one expects it will avoid party politics). Differing from your personal statement as to the nature of the Craft, I understand regular, traditional Freemasonry (not 'Traditionalism') to be a system of morality: The 'symbolics,' to which you refer, are merely tools to help achieve the object as stated in the First Sectional Lecture, 'namely, the cultivation and improvement of the human mind'. Indeed I suggest, in attempting to introduce your peculiar and pretentious Nihilistic philosophy to Freemasony, to the exclusion of all else, it is your conduct which is unmasonic.
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Post by devoutfreemason on May 15, 2007 21:21:24 GMT
(big snip) Maria Deraismes (1828-1894) Georges Martin (1844-1916) Maria Deraismes was a journalist and fighter for the rights of women and children and Dr. Georges Martin was a Senator, a General Councillor for the Dept of the Seine and a Municipal Councillor of Paris who undertook campaigns in favour of:
• the civic and political rights of women • the defence of the rights of oppressed children • opposition to clerical intolerance • the establishment of a neutral school respecting the ideas of everyone. (big snip) The obvious point is that in yours truly's humble opinion, initiation, regardless of gender, initiatic Orders in general and Freemasonry in particular have to do, in contrast to the quoted objectives, with symbolics, not with politics. Traditional Freemasonry is something different from politicised organisations like the Grand Orient of France since about 1840 and Le Droit Humain. It is interesting to clearly see this contrast here at MFoL. As a Grand Orient Of France Mason let me say that you Brother, do not know what you are talking about in this regard. Respectfully.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on May 15, 2007 22:07:50 GMT
Bro. Lihin hasn't posted here in a while. I'm hoping it's because he's gathering quite a lot of knowledge together and now is letting it simmer to see what comes of it. I'm hoping for something good ;D
So while he may be too far away to much hear you, Bro. DFM, I'm always glad to see you here ;D
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Post by devoutfreemason on May 16, 2007 16:49:53 GMT
Bro. Lihin hasn't posted here in a while. I'm hoping it's because he's gathering quite a lot of knowledge together and now is letting it simmer to see what comes of it. I'm hoping for something good ;D So while he may be too far away to much hear you, Bro. DFM, I'm always glad to see you here ;D Thank you Brother karen. IMHO this is the best Masonic forum on the web and I have spent too much time away from it.
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