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Post by thedixiemason on Sept 22, 2007 6:15:03 GMT
The OES is a great "masonic" organization, IMO. My Grandmother was a member, my wife is, my sister is.
I don't think I've ever read anything on this forum from an OES member.
Maybe I should have taken a poll to see how many there are.
What do most female Co-Masons see wrong with the OES?
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Post by lauderdale on Sept 22, 2007 6:31:45 GMT
I had an Aunt in Scotland, now alas deceased, in OES and it's a great Organisation. Very popular in the USA and Scotland but for some totally daft reason banned by UGLE who's members are forbidden to have any involvement therewith, so it's not that well known in England which makes up the bulk of the UK population.
I don't know that female Co-Masons DO have anything against the OES although it is NOT Freemasonry nor does it claim to be.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 22, 2007 6:47:19 GMT
(genuinely puzzled)
The tone of your question suggests, I think, that you have encountered Co-Masons who have issues with OES. If so, perhaps you should ask them. I know Co-Masons who are members of OES. From them, I hear only good things about the organization.
I have posted, a few times, that the only negative I have noticed is that OES was/is improperly used to warehouse women called to Masonry. However, that is no fault of OES. It does, however, leave some Co-Masons feeling embittered. Not at OES, but at the lack of mercy shown them by their should-be Brothers.
If you are asking why women Freemasons don't feel OES is "good substitute" for the path they are called to. . . would you find it a good substitute?
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Sept 22, 2007 8:05:25 GMT
I am neither woman nor a co-mason, but having talked with a few, their view is that there is nothing wrong with the OES - nor, for that matter, with AMORC, or various other non-Freemasonic organisations that allow both men and women.
Having said that, if what they seek is Freemasonry, than OES ain't that.
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Post by thedixiemason on Sept 22, 2007 8:15:41 GMT
(genuinely puzzled) The tone of your question suggests, I think, that you have encountered Co-Masons who have issues with OES. If so, perhaps you should ask them. I know Co-Masons who are members of OES. From them, I hear only good things about the organization. I have posted, a few times, that the only negative I have noticed is that OES was/is improperly used to warehouse women called to Masonry. However, that is no fault of OES. It does, however, leave some Co-Masons feeling embittered. Not at OES, but at the lack of mercy shown them by their should-be Brothers. If you are asking why women Freemasons don't feel OES is "good substitute" for the path they are called to. . . would you find it a good substitute? What is it about Masonry that makes you feel "called?"
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Post by gaslight on Sept 22, 2007 10:05:20 GMT
How are OES chapters numbered? I didn't know that OES was active in Scotland, so I checked a few websites. There appear to be only three or four active chapters, but the numbers are all over the place: 35, 356, 513, 650. The main General Grand Chapter site has a small diagram that confused me even more. What are the "Grand Jurisdictions" and how do they fit in?
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Sept 22, 2007 13:02:06 GMT
I suspect that is because unless a region (outside the USA) develops its own Grand Chapter, the numbers are allocated from Scotland, no matter where in the world the Chapter is. Perhaps this historical page from the Australian Grand Chapter may shed a little light on its history.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 22, 2007 13:26:37 GMT
What is it about Masonry that makes you feel "called?" Answer mine, then I will do my best to answer your's And, Gaslight, now that you mention the numbers . . . why are lodges numbered at all?
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Post by gaslight on Sept 22, 2007 13:54:08 GMT
And, Gaslight, now that you mention the numbers . . . why are lodges numbered at all? To establish precedence? With some GLs having thousands of lodges, it does help in keeping track. At installations and communications, for example, when representatives of GLs, DGLs, PGLs, and daughter lodges get up to give greetings. Masonic protocol (!) dictates that the greetings be given in a certain order, senior going before junior. I can't imagine that going smoothly without the numbers. Also, whenever I meet someone from a lodge with a number close to that of mine, I feel a strong historical bond. It's almost certain that his lodge was founded within a year or two of mine. And, yes, I know that some mainstream GLs don't have numbering.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 22, 2007 14:42:10 GMT
With some GLs having thousands of lodges, it does help in keeping track. At installations and communications, for example, when representatives of GLs, DGLs, PGLs, and daughter lodges get up to give greetings. Masonic protocol (!) dictates that the greetings be given in a certain order, senior going before junior. Y'know, I've been wondering how folks know when it's their turn to give greetings. When I've asked, I've been told I'd figure it out. And I've been trying but . . . I also don't like Socratic questions Thanking for letting me know ;D Really? Which ones?
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Post by thedixiemason on Sept 22, 2007 19:04:25 GMT
Massachusetts doesn't use numbers. When the mods and ancients joined, they couldn't figure out who got to keep their number, so they dropped all of the numbers.
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Post by gaslight on Sept 23, 2007 4:39:59 GMT
Y'know, I've been wondering how folks know when it's their turn to give greetings. When I've asked, I've been told I'd figure it out. And I've been trying but . . . I also don't like Socratic questions (Blows kiss Bro. Karen's way) Getting the order right is the least of everyone's troubles. If there are several members of a particular GL, DGL, lodge, etc. there, and they don't decide beforehand who's going to get up and give the greetings, confusion reigns. And when someone goes give the greetings, the other members of that lodge etc. are supposed to get up at the same time. Seeing as some senior Masons belong to several lodges of different constitutions, there's a lot of bouncing up and down. Fun to watch. Massachusetts was the one I had in mind, but dixiemason has beaten me to it. Also Hawaii, Cuba and Sweden (riffling through an old copy of Pantagraph's List of Lodges).
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Post by devoutfreemason on Sept 23, 2007 5:24:11 GMT
The OES still requires a Master Mason to be presen t in order to function. I find this rather odd. IMHO the OES is outdated.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 23, 2007 6:12:28 GMT
Seeing as some senior Masons belong to several lodges of different constitutions, there's a lot of bouncing up and down. Fun to watch. It is, indeed. And can be a bit perplexing. I was traveling with a Master from my lodge who belongs to a number of lodges (Mark, HRA, etc.). Everytime she bounced up to give greetings, I wondered if it was time to give greetings for our mother lodge, which would mean I need to bounce up, too. Sure'nuf, she got to it when I wasn't paying close enough attention and I missed have the greeting before I jumped up
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Post by gaslight on Sept 23, 2007 6:47:07 GMT
The OES still requires a Master Mason to be presen t in order to function. I find this rather odd. IMHO the OES is outdated. How is it faring with regard to membership? An OES chapter used to share our Temple but it went dark in the early 80s. For the last year or so I've been digitizing old lodge minutes and am currently working my way through 1972. Each month there's a mention of Job's Daughters. They seem to have gone too.
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Post by thedixiemason on Sept 23, 2007 6:50:33 GMT
Well, now it seems that we neglect them, and support Co-Masonry instead.
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Sept 23, 2007 9:57:23 GMT
Not sure of who the 'us' is, Bro thedixiemason, nor if the 'instead' is appropriate.
Here in Melbourne, Co-Freemasonry has existed for close to 100 years. It could be said that when the OES started local branches, some brethren chose to instead (or as well) support this latter instead of the established LDH Lodges.
In any case, the 'support' is by those who join first and foremost, and here know a number of individuals who actively chose LDH rather than the OES precisely because the former is Masonic, whereas the latter is not. If someone wants to join Freemasonry, why would you point them to the OES? (Conversely, of course, if someone wants to join the OES, why would you even advise them to join LDH!)
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 23, 2007 15:41:01 GMT
If someone wants to join Freemasonry, why would you point them to the OES? (Conversely, of course, if someone wants to join the OES, why would you even advise them to join LDH!) Bro. Dixie, respectfully, lovingly, fraternally and as gently as I can say it, I do believe these questions Bro. JMD has put to you goes to the very heart of your own question. I know it hurts to have bright light shined directly into the eyes. I know Truth often will make us blink, at first. And most of us, when we are in pain and confusion, become angry or upset and want to turn away. Run back into the comfortable darkness. Or even lash out. But you *are* a Brother, Bro. Dixie, I know it. That is why you cannot help but place yourself in the position of the "someone" Bro. JMD mentions. You've been there. You are there now. But you can bear this, Bro. Dixie. You were made of stern stuff, by Him who made us all. This need not master you, you have it in you to master it. (gentle smile) Take your time, there is no rush. Your choices are to move forward or to turn back. You now have all you need have to make that choice. Good luck to you. I will be thinking of you, though I shall not speak to you again on this topic until you've made your choice. For there is, for you, I think, nothing more to be said.
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