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Post by corab on Mar 23, 2008 20:51:15 GMT
Hi Brandt, On a personal note, what would prohibit a member a member of LDH from participating in something of this nature? You mentioned obligation, is it a matter of jurisdictional rules regarding intervisitation or something more? I'm sorry -- I didn't express myself clearly there. My comment was to do with visiting a lodge belonging to an Obedience not recognised by mine. It served to clarify that no matter how much I might wisht to, I would not, as I consider my Obligation binding. But that doesn't mean I won't ask questions! S&F, Cora
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Post by brandt on Mar 23, 2008 21:10:47 GMT
Please do ask questions as I would highly value your input. On the matter of recognition, the world is a strange place and we live on real funny planet. On occasion the most unlikely does happen. Cora, you have proven to be a level mind that is capable of critical thought, for that reason your input is highly valued.
Brandt
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Post by parisfred on Mar 23, 2008 21:23:00 GMT
Bro:. Brandt I read that the creation of a new LDH lodge in california has be made with the help of brethren of the GOdF, Here in small cities the temple, the lodge room, are shared by GO, LDH, feminin GL and some other GL in good hamony... next week on tuesday I will help a small Memphis Misraim lodge for an initiation in the same lodge room that my lodge will use on thursday.
Bro:. Cora do you know if a treaty signed by one of the member of the LDH federation is considered valid by the whole federation ?
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Post by corab on Mar 23, 2008 21:25:05 GMT
Please do ask questions as I would highly value your input. On the matter of recognition, the world is a strange place and we live on real funny planet. On occasion the most unlikely does happen. Cora, you have proven to be a level mind that is capable of critical thought, for that reason your input is highly valued. I may just do that, Brandt -- but be prepared for unexpected shifts in perspective. Those who know me best will tell you I have no qualms about proclaiming previously held perspectives incorrect, after having considered additional facts. I am a Gemini legal professional ...
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Post by brandt on Mar 23, 2008 23:55:16 GMT
No problem Cora, no problem at all. It is refreshing to see that people can own up to previously held perspectives to be incorrect. I try to own up when I have been "incorrect." ;-)
I am just a Gemini
Fred, that is what I want in the United States. If my memory serves me you are a member of the GLTSO am I correct?
Brandt
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Post by corab on Mar 24, 2008 0:25:23 GMT
Bro:. Fred, Bro:. Cora do you know if a treaty signed by one of the member of the LDH federation is considered valid by the whole federation ? I presume you are referring to dual membership treaties? It is my understanding that these, like regularity protocols, can only be agreed by the Supreme Council, rather than individual Federations / Jurisdictions. Tres fraternellement, Cora
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
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Post by imakegarb on Mar 24, 2008 3:55:31 GMT
I am awaiting an application to petition. When it arrives, I'll be filing it out. Hopefully I'll be found suitable. Darylee. should you send off that application, I do have a bit of advice for you: settle, mentally, into a comfy chair and wait. This is not a quick process and it *can* be maddening. At least it was for me. About two months went by before I heard a word from the lodge. And I was in quite a state by the time the investigating committee members started to contact me. And even when I was voted in, it was still a couple of months before I was initiated. I've heard some potential members receive more contact than this, some receive even less. However much you receive, the wait does amount to your first test. Patience and persistence are much respected and so I wish you both. I hope all goes well for you.
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
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Post by FireMist on Mar 24, 2008 4:28:48 GMT
Thanks Bro. Karen. I haven't recieved the application as yet. I found a link to the Geo. Washington off of Brandt's profile..just in case there is someting in Ohio, but I rather doubt there is anyting at this time.... Anyway. Thank you for your encouragement. Patience vs time. Time is but a human persepctive. Seems like last month I moved to Ohio...1982. Seems like yesterday when I took my current job...1991 What's a few months? Plus, I think I remember Rosario saying that the meetings are the second Sat. of each month. I won't be able to attend in May or June due to other commitments at this time. As long as I know they have recieved information they need at each step, I'll not worry. My problem will be not impatience, but a concern that they did not recieve information, or that I missed a communicaiton. (that happened to me last November due to my computer giving problems.)...that IS maddening. Patience and persistence ....I need to emulate my Vizsla. LOL Thank You. You've put me in a great mood to hit the sack with.
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Mar 26, 2008 3:20:33 GMT
In dwelving into the 'lore' of Freemasonry, as well as the history; I find it interesting that an organization of brothers with signs grips and words to allow them to be free to travel and find other brothers across national boarders now seems so fractured. Don't get me wroing, I find it interesting, but I also am understanding it. We all grow and learn in and adapt to different environments. (e.g. if not we'd all be speaking latin and wearing togas.)
Meanwhile, Parisfred, Brandt, and Cora; can you discuss the trieties mentioned? I feel that was an interesting thought to a thread aborted in difference to the direciton the thread has taken. Please continue if you wish, I think this definately pertains to my origional question in the thread as far as recognition between the bodies.
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Post by brandt on Mar 26, 2008 13:28:35 GMT
Sure thing. Different organizations often, in relation to their mutual recognition develop treaties that spell out how the two organizations in question will work with each other, and assist each other. It is more of a formal acknowledgement (in some cases) of an already existing paradigm.
Brandt
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
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Post by FireMist on Mar 27, 2008 11:29:18 GMT
I suppose I'm interested in those agreements (and why I asked the question) due to my habit of traveling when I can. All my travels to date have been close enough so I can still maintain gainful employment. They also involve my interest in History and archeological experimentation. (Living history) Upon retirement, I would like to go to friend's countries to join them in their events as well as to tour when I can. The question was already placed earlier in the thread as far as it depending on how much I travel....which places me right back at the original question
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Post by corab on Mar 27, 2008 13:03:53 GMT
Parisfred, Brandt, and Cora; can you discuss the trieties mentioned? Sure. There are different types of treaties. You have recognition protocols; more or less what Brandt described in his response, and then you have dual membership treaties, which allow Brn:. of two jurisdictions who are in fraternal relations to become members of both jurisdictions. There may be other Treaties as well, but these are the ones I am aware of.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Mar 27, 2008 14:56:25 GMT
In dwelving into the 'lore' of Freemasonry, as well as the history; I find it interesting that an organization of brothers with signs grips and words to allow them to be free to travel and find other brothers across national boarders now seems so fractured. Don't get me wroing, I find it interesting, but I also am understanding it. We all grow and learn in and adapt to different environments. (e.g. if not we'd all be speaking latin and wearing togas.) Meanwhile, Parisfred, Brandt, and Cora; can you discuss the trieties mentioned? I feel that was an interesting thought to a thread aborted in difference to the direciton the thread has taken. Please continue if you wish, I think this definately pertains to my origional question in the thread as far as recognition between the bodies. If you want to do that then you should join the obedience with the most international and wide body of recognition. Schisms are as Masonic as apple pie is American ;D One thing I have learned about Masons is that many or overly sensative. It seems that the longer some have been Masons the more sensative they are. Combine that with stubborness and a sense of entightlement and wham, you have a schism. Some schisms are more "legit" than others.
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
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Post by FireMist on Mar 27, 2008 16:13:41 GMT
That is part of the pieces of the puzzle I have to answer with all your assistance. It is but one of many things I have to consider...but only one. That is why I'm trying to ask questions. ...the most international and wide body...well, that door is closed to me, but then the other door though wide open may not be the one for me.... decisions I need to learn more.
Part of that is if I decide to join one, and I can no longer travel that far, but there is another opened closer, do I need to re-petition, or what happens then? If two groups did indeed have fraternal realtions already, as Cora stated some do, it may be very simple.
Shoot, I didn't have this much trouble deciding what colleges and universities to attend.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Mar 27, 2008 16:44:21 GMT
I am not sure I fully understand your question. So, here are the basics of the situation.
In Co-Masonry (or as the Europeans state Mixed Masonry) you have three main groups within the USA.
Le Droit Humaine- The oldest and largest (world wide Co Masonic organization.) In the USA growing rapidly. Very progressive and on the verge of really great things here. Recognized world wide by many Malecraft, feminine and mixed obediences. A rich history and a respected group. IMHO very exciting.
American Federation Of Human Rights- The largest group currently in the USA. From my understanding (and far from an expert one) very centralized. They are currently only recognized by themselves.
George Washington Union- A mixed version of the GOdF in North America. Very Frenco centric. Small in numbers but some changes are starting to value more growth. Slow growth. A CLIPSAS founding member. Recognized by LDH and other major groups around the world.
So again, it depends on what is importance. If it is a lodge closest right now, perhaps AFHR would be for you? If it is to be a part of a long standing worldwide tradition LDH would be the choice. If you want to dive into the deep end of the French culture and workings pool, George Washington Union.
Also, one thing to consider is that you may some time in the future want to be a participant of more than one. For an example if you are a member of LDH chances are you will be working in the Lauderdale (spirtual) ritual. When on vaction you may want to drop in and visit a GWU lodge and witness French AASR (secular)working. If you are a member of LDH or GWU you can do this. A member of AFHR cannot.
Lots to consider but it all just depends on what you find important.
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Post by penfold on Mar 27, 2008 16:58:50 GMT
Good advice and info there Brad
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Post by ingo on Apr 4, 2008 13:34:26 GMT
Devoutfreemason Very interesting. Do you have any numbers? How many masons make LDH or American federation of Human Rights today? In Germany Co-Masonry is small, it is about 250 masons alltogether. I belong to a co-masonic lodge too.
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Apr 4, 2008 14:03:18 GMT
I am not yet a brother. I just know others personally (not co-mason) and am seeking membersip.
Interesting question. Due to history, I believe those numbers will drastically change between Masonic lodeges around the world. (I understand you are narring the field to USA due to the question (above))
My take, it is not about numbers, it's about the craft. There could be 100 or 100,000 it matters not.
Two examples, using an entirely different subjects; It's a rather awkward way to explain my thoughts but .....
I was in an active Christian church when I lived on the East coast. We only had about 200 members and their families. That church is still about the same size 25 years later, yet does more than any of the churches I've been involved in since....all of greater numbers.
Most of our beef here is raised on feed lots...open lots fenced where the food is brought to the cattle. I've had beef rasied in small herds in a field by a local farmer. The flavor difference is unreal. The feed lots can produce a lot more product but is it necessarily better?
(I prefer pheasant , quail and american buffalo (bison) myself.)
That is why I've not asked the question here or anywhere. Though an interesting fact that would be nice to know. It has not been an important fact in my decision process.
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Post by leonardo on Apr 4, 2008 17:31:31 GMT
Devoutfreemason Very interesting. Do you have any numbers? How many masons make LDH or American federation of Human Rights today? In Germany Co-Masonry is small, it is about 250 masons alltogether. I belong to a co-masonic lodge too. Check out this thread as the figures are mentioned at some point How Many C0-Masons.......
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Post by ingo on Apr 20, 2008 18:56:38 GMT
Don't find it.....
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