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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 18, 2007 6:29:23 GMT
As a result of another thread here the question popped into my head , what would happen if a gay person wanted to join Co Masonry?
Would Co Masonry have the same reservations that Male a Female Craft might have or would you just accept ?
I can imagine for example if you have married couples in co Masonry they may well object to Gay Freemasonry, but I dont know.
It would be interesting to get some response from outside of the male Craft.
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Post by hollandr on Oct 18, 2007 7:36:25 GMT
As an ex-Co-M I can say that the topic never arose
And I wonder if the male brethren who are concerned with these things would have the same consideration of applicants in lesbian relationships
In my view the calibre of the applicant is not to be judged by sexual preference but by the presence of good will and honour towards humanity
Cheers
Russell
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Post by leonardo on Oct 18, 2007 8:23:45 GMT
As a result of another thread here the question popped into my head , what would happen if a gay person wanted to join Co Masonry? Would Co Masonry have the same reservations that Male a Female Craft might have or would you just accept ? I can imagine for example if you have married couples in co Masonry they may well object to Gay Freemasonry, but I dont know. It would be interesting to get some response from outside of the male Craft. As a married man who, along with his wife, God willing is about to join Co-Masonry I can say that for us this would never be an issue. As Russel so rightly says someones sexual orientation is their own business.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 18, 2007 8:41:22 GMT
I have been a Co-Mason for almost a year now but from those Brethren I have met I cannot see it being a problem. I don't think the question would arise to be honest. There may well be Homosexual and Lesbian Brethren and I have quite possibly met them but I haven't noticed to be honest. it simply hasn't been an issue.
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Post by penfold on Oct 18, 2007 9:19:59 GMT
Are there that many male/female craft masons who find it unacceptable then? Personally I think it is nothing to do with the lodge.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 18, 2007 9:41:15 GMT
I haven't come across any Co-Masons as yet who have expressed a strong antipathy to Homosexuals or Lesbians. They may well exist but keep their views on this matter to themselves.
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Post by whistler on Oct 18, 2007 9:44:20 GMT
Bill Of Course there are Homosexual Co-Masons - What is your Problem?
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 18, 2007 11:11:50 GMT
I dont have a problem.
No one to my knowledged has asked this question of Co Masonry. I just thought it was an interesting question.
There have been number of occasions here where the question has been asked of malecraft and answered, where it would seem the possibility of jealousy in theory should not arise.
But in mixed gender lodges I wondered if that might be a factor. I have no opinion on the possibility or the correctness of any answer.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 18, 2007 11:42:04 GMT
NOT wishing to score any sort of point I assure you Bro Bill, but in my own personal experience it was in some Malecraft Lodges that I found Homophobia. I don't think this is caused by jealousy but many Heterosexual men have both an in-built fear and aversion for Homosexuals. As I say the issue simply has not arisen in any of the Co-Masonic Lodges I have attended so far . I am not seeking to make out Co-Masons to be more tolerant than their Malecraft or for that matter Women Only Masonic Brethren but feel that all Masons of whatever Affiliation reflect the Society in which they live and as such there are bound to be Homophobes, Racists, Chauvinists, Religious Bigots as a small percentage of the membership. I knew of one man who was is now dead but was a Member of a Lodge I used to attend years ago who would have fallen into the first three and possibly all of those categories . He was, however very much of a minority amongst the many Freemasons I have met in the last 19 years that I have myself been On the Square.
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Post by leonardo on Oct 18, 2007 12:01:53 GMT
Has it not been addressed extensively already, that someones sexual preferences are not an issue? I am sure, as in any walk of life, there will be those who follow a particular path that might be considered out of the norm within CFM as in other areas of Freemasonry. The important thing here is surely, would a gay person be less of a Mason? Personally I don't see how someones sexual persuasion should interfere with their effectiveness in following the Craft.
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Post by cezarek on Oct 18, 2007 12:37:38 GMT
I don't think it would be an issue within co-masonry any more or less than it would in a male/femalecraft lodge. There was never a problem with me (I didn't discuss and nobody asked, though a few brothers and sisters have met my then partner), just after my initiation, a prominent gay activist was initiated in our lodge and I know of a very small number of other gay male co-masons - consistent with the percentage of gays in society as a whole, plus a lesbian couple who are in a femalecraft lodge.
Sometimes I attend a malecraft lodge, in amity with ours, and it isn't an issue there either and anything anybody has ever said has never been negative in any way - humourous maybe, negative no.
During the initial interviews they asked if I thought there was a limit to tolerance. I suspect that anyone leading a particularly and ostentatiously immoral life, regardless of their sexuality, might have problems, but in general there seems to be a disinclination to pry beyond the bedroom door.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 18, 2007 13:00:44 GMT
Perhaps I should make it clear I have no objection to gay men joing Freemasonry or gay women come to that.
I had some gay friends when I was in my early 20's, they were a really nice couple, but in those days - early 1970's the world was not so forgiving as it is supposed to be today. So if you like I was exposed to the gay community some time back.
well yes, in the general sense as I said, but no one has answered in particular from the Co Masonic viewpoint. we cany deny that the dynamics in a Co Lodge will be different from a single sex Lodge , can we ?
I would say Bro. Steve has it about right and he has had the advantage of viewing the reactions of both Male Craft and Co Craft.
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Post by gipsyrose on Oct 18, 2007 13:54:49 GMT
Bill
In my experience, as part of a couple who are both in the same co-masonry lodge, the consideration of a brother or sister's sexual orientation seems irrelevant to what we do, and is instead just a part of the unique ashlar that each person brings to our temple.
gipsyrose
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Post by whistler on Oct 18, 2007 18:50:52 GMT
Bill . we cany deny that the dynamics in a Co Lodge will be different from a single sex Lodge Yes the energies would be differents... In our Lodge on physical or emotional level Gender difference is not noticed - Both Boys and Girls wash up after supper. Boys and Girls move the furniture - an a curious way the use of Bro for Boys and Girls enforces that there is no difference between boys and girls. Your sexual concerns are answered by our Masonic teachings which include learning to control ourselves, the symbolism of the absence of an apron in the regalia of a 30Degree Mason should not be lost
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Post by corab on Oct 18, 2007 19:28:40 GMT
As a result of another thread here the question popped into my head , what would happen if a gay person wanted to join Co Masonry? Same thing as would happen with any other person. What reservations would they be? I can't possibly think why. Neither gender nor sexual orientation have anything to do with freemasonry and what it seeks to achieve. How should freemasons meet, act and part? Says it all. S&F, Cora
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 18, 2007 20:17:31 GMT
Bill In my experience, as part of a couple who are both in the same co-masonry lodge, the consideration of a brother or sister's sexual orientation seems irrelevant to what we do, and is instead just a part of the unique ashlar that each person brings to our temple. gipsyrose It would be great if this is what happens, remember I am asking the question not supplying answers here. But you see, I know that Male Craft should do a lot of things, that it does not do, so [pardon the punn] I get a little skeptical when a very Rosey picture is painted. Nothing is that perfect, there have to be some warts somehwhere.
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Post by corab on Oct 18, 2007 20:25:49 GMT
Nothing is that perfect, there have to be some warts somehwhere. Oh well, we can't say you don't keep an open mind there, Bro:. Bill ...
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 18, 2007 20:35:07 GMT
Well I am just an ordinary bloke with a practical brain, cant do more than one thing at a time , but very practical.
Let me tell what would happen with my friends. All good people genuine and honest, none are Freemasons.
We go out about once a month with a Group of these neighbors. Quiz, Talent Night, Show that sort of thing. But it is all or part of the same group that goes each time.
If say a Gay Male, were to approach and ask to join the group, I am confident that my wife and her friends would view this with a deal of suspicion. Now that is not a popular thing to say, but it is an honest appraisal of what might happen. Now you could say the same about a Straight Female who would ask to join the group, I believe the wives would be suspicious of the reasons she wanted to join.
It is interesting to try to understand the dynamics in a Co Masonic Lodge.
In other words I dont believe it would be as acceptable outside of a Lodge environment.
I take the point about Masonic principles, but that is a very wide brush to paint all Freemasons with. I have seen some great Masons, I have also seen some real b'stds in Freemasonry.
We sometimes assume that particular groups are without fault.
But I have another little story. Every Christmas I go to our local Salvation Army recital, they do a great job, full Brass band , singers and some variety as well. Last year we went and Susan Maughm [1960's] was the guest singer.
I noticed the Band leader was not there and he was a great asset to the Band. So I asked if he was OK. I was told he was fine, he was very fine, he ran off with the Choir Mistress the week before.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 18, 2007 20:39:01 GMT
Nothing is that perfect, there have to be some warts somehwhere. Oh well, we can't say you don't keep an open mind there, Bro:. Bill ... I see your a little smarter now your a Master Mason ..... your going to love my next question.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 18, 2007 21:03:37 GMT
We go out about once a month with a Group of these neighbors. Quiz, Talent Night, Show that sort of thing. My wife and I enjoy going to Trivia Nights (and often win). One of the friends we call upon to make up a team is a lesbian (she is good with geography and science questions). She is a former work colleague of mine and her orientation is fairly conspicuous, yet no one has ever joked or made disparaging remarks about her sexuality in our presence.
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