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Post by hollandr on Jan 16, 2005 7:50:10 GMT
I have just had an off-board conversation with a member of a research lodge. I was aware that such lodges were generally for historical research but the conversation made that even clearer.
It seems to me that historical research, if the only research, implicitly makes the following propositions:
- The quality of our Masonic workings depends on continuing the past practices as exactly as possible (this of course became easier once the rituals were frozen as text)
- The previous generation of Masons was closer to the source of Masonry than we are so that we must imitate the older brethren as closely as possible. (this is a slippery proposition as it implies there was a coherent source - something rather awkward to demonstrate historically)
- Masonry does not need to adapt to new times (I will ignore the monstrosity of one-day Masons)
- The entire revelation of Masonry has already occurred and there is and will be nothing to be added at any time. (this sounds like traditional churches)
For myself, I suggest that the human race, the planet and TGAOTU are all in the process of unfolding so that new divine qualities have yet to be demonstrated.
For example in the last generation the human race has discovered economy of natural resources and recycling. Surely the Divinity already understood these things.
What new qualities of the Divinity are yet to be displayed and will they be represented in Masonry?
So I suggest that research backwards is wonderful for those so inclined but research forward is possibly more important.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by hollandr on Jan 16, 2005 8:52:54 GMT
As a post script to the above:
I recall the incident in Mark where the keystone is lost. Now if I were devising a ritual why would I impress on every new Mark Mason that the senior brethren (overseers) really did not have an understanding of how the temple should be constructed?
This seems very subversive of lodge discipline.
So if I wrote that in the ritual I would have to have a very good reason.
Could it be that craft masons really do not know how the Temple is to be constructed ?
Could this repeated demonstration of the ignorance of our overseers be intended to make us look beyond the craft?
Even if we claim that this is a time immemorial ritual (evidence?) we are still left with the question of why the renovators of Masonry in the 18th C saw fit to keep it.
Any other options?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 16, 2005 8:58:10 GMT
Ah, Bro Russell you have encountered the Dinosaurs, the WHADITW brigade or those who bleat on about the long dead and mostly forgotten Founders of the Lodge when someone suggests even a small and helpful change.
EVERYTHING evolves, or it atrophies and becomes extinct and Freemasonry is no exception. We have already done so in many ways. We no longer eat and drink and smoke in the Temple during the Meeting as was once the case. The WM no longer wears a Tricorn Hat. We do not fine members who break the Rules as was once part of our practices. The Disabled (Cripples as they used to be called) are now quite welcome as Members , once they were precuded. We have changed the wording regarding the Traditional Penalties and deleted a Name in RA here in England and are making other changes to that Order. Much of the overtly Christian aspects were thrown out after the Union of 1815 at the behest of the Duke of Sussex the then GM.
I am NOT advocating that we modernise and thus ruin our language as has happened to the Liturgy of the Roman Catholic and Anglican Churches, and as The Craft is a very Traditionalist and "conservative" Institution we adapt to change slowly, but change we do and must or we will become irrelevant and an "old fogies club" .
Russell, I agree with you that we are NOT written in Tablets of Stone and whilst keeping the best we must be prepared to adapt, especially in peripheral matters such as the running of the Festive Board- see my postings on Stewards serving wine and selling Raffle Tickets - and as far as Ritual is concerned I do NOT consider rote learing as sacrosanct and would quite happily see some parts of the Ritual read by the WM if needs be.
Postscript. as in all the Degrees and Orders, the Mark Legend has a Moral Lesson to impart. "The Stone that the Builders Rejected having merits to them unknown has become the Headstone of the Building" This is allegorical and is not to say that the skilled artisans who built KST were "Cowboys" but to teach us not to reject someone on first appearances because they are different from what we expect. In the Scots and other systems the Mark is an integral part and fits in better than down here where it is off to the side and many Brethren do not join.
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 16, 2005 17:47:53 GMT
Oh i am sooo looking forward to Mark.
You boys just keep whetting my appetite.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 16, 2005 17:50:13 GMT
You will love it, it's a very friendly Degree. Let me know which Mark Lodge you will be Advanced into and I will try to attend.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 17, 2005 8:56:34 GMT
We need the past so as to lay a foundation for the future. Without an understanding of where the Craft has come from we fail to plan for the future.
There are countless examples in daily life, that one must learn to walk before we are able to run.
At the very basics this is all the 3 degrees teach us. further up the ladder of side & higher degrees we gain greater insights.
The importance of our traditional charges and Oaths is that there is a hidden message in EACH AND EVERY WORD written in the traditional form. Masonry SHOULD teach us to seek it out, each for himself.
Thus do we eventually change, improve and enlighten ourselves, Brn. Thus becoming better tools for assisting others on the path.
The joy is not only in performing it correctly, BUT in observing that which is hidden within. When that occurs, the understanding of what we are about dispels any concerns that our Ritual is a meaningless jumble.
Inwardly we KNOW for ourselves what we are about, & channel that energy for the improvement of the universe. Thus we look forward !
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Post by leonardo on Jan 17, 2005 13:11:14 GMT
We need the past so as to lay a foundation for the future. Without an understanding of where the Craft has come from we fail to plan for the future. Sums it up perfectly, imo.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 17, 2005 17:33:46 GMT
[quote author=Russell Holland
So I suggest that research backwards is wonderful for those so inclined but research forward is possibly more important. Russell[/quote]
Russell I strongly agree with most that you say, but I would like to add, that as we continually research the past we add things to our own intelligence that will help open the doors to more information in the future.
I cannot seperate therefore what I consider the most important! (sort of ying/yang?)
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bod
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Post by bod on Jan 17, 2005 18:41:12 GMT
Without the past we have no future - we need to know where we have been, before we can figure out where we are going. I find it very very hard to believe that what was essentially a verbal tradition survived imutable prior to it being written down - anyone who has played chinese whispers knows this is an impossibility.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 24, 2005 17:17:49 GMT
It makes me smile to think of the Mark being called a friendly Degree. I'm sure if one day we go back to the old two-Degree system (you never know, as Judge Dread used to say, it might come back) and the Third becomes an "antique special", people will start enthusing about it like this: "Oh, it's such a friendly Degree..."
The Mark isn't supposed to be friendly: it's supposed to impress upon the recipient that only those who deserve payment will receive it, and do-nothing deadweights will not be tolerated in the Craft any more than the uncharitable and the dishonest. Equally, however, good workmen will rise to replace bad workmen, for effort will be rewarded as surely as laziness punished.
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Post by Yoki on Jan 25, 2005 6:53:51 GMT
Hubert wrote-Inwardly we KNOW for ourselves what we are about & channel that energy for the improvement of the universe.
This I like and in fact it sums up our earthly endeavour.
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bod
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Post by bod on Jan 25, 2005 8:16:59 GMT
But the friendly part relates to the way that Mark in UGLE-land is organised, i.e. it's a lot less formal than the Craft and more friendly. In it's working's it is anything but friendly - but it is very educational - well to me it was..
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 25, 2005 9:39:15 GMT
Bod & Co. - Re Mark:
I think the friendliness is part to do with ones' coming of age in masonic work. For me when I first joined BLUE, I was always in Awe when attending, scared to say boo! After finally "serving my time" I applied for Mark and found here a most interesting ritual that taught a lot, but more so if we "play acted" the Ceremony.
From that time forward I was able to relax at meetings, thus being able to put more of my "soul" into it's workings.
All the degrees have much valuable treasures to present to us but if we can do it in a more relaxed, and happy way we learn quicker - still with the discipline but less with the authoritarianism.
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bod
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Post by bod on Jan 25, 2005 9:44:38 GMT
With you all the way Hubert - we learn far more if we enjoy our experiences. Our barriers to perception are removed when we relax and return to a child like state - child like in thirsting for knowledge as opposed to adult-like in assuming we already know.
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Post by waynecowley on Jan 25, 2005 10:37:44 GMT
It's probably also true that when we come into Freemasonry we are - in general - unsure what to expect or how to behave. We may know only one or two other members.
However, when we join other degrees and orders we usually have a much better idea of the basic protocol to follow and will have associated with far more of the members in our Craft travels hence are more comfortable with the experience.
I've also found it the case that those who go on to the other degrees and orders tend to be those who are more committed about their freemasonry and perhaps feel they have less to prove.
Wayne
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 25, 2005 10:46:23 GMT
"I've also found it the case that those who go on to the other Degrees and Orders tend to be those who are more committed about their Freemasonry and perhaps feel they have less to prove."
I have certainly found this to be the case in my personal experience Bro Wayne.
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bod
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Post by bod on Jan 25, 2005 12:58:33 GMT
More committed, or less interested in the social aspects and the 'honours' and recognition that seem to form a large part of some peoples view of the craft?
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 25, 2005 13:09:45 GMT
That may well be the reason, Bod, although many of those in the Higher Degrees are also of Rank in Craft and RA. The difference I have found is that they don't have this "Oh look at me I'm a PPGSwdB" attitude that one sometimes sees in Craft nor I have found are they as likely to make a big thing about bringing a lot of Guests to a Ladies Night , assuming they attend them as some do.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 25, 2005 15:13:26 GMT
Freemasonry looks both forward and backward. We are Janus, keeper of thresholds, from janua a doorway, hence janitor, the Tyler. The door of Initiation has two views: forward, but blindfolded; and backwards, which is behind our head and so also invisible to us. All we have of the past is memory, which can play tricks with us; and all we have of the future is imagination, which is memory married to mystery. In that moment of uncertainty we call the present, the threshold we hesitate upon our whole lives, we can only proceed to yet more and different doors, to portals as yet unimagined.
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Post by choochoo808 on Jul 5, 2011 18:33:10 GMT
The importance of our traditional charges and Oaths is that there is a hidden message in EACH AND EVERY WORD written in the traditional form [/b]. The joy is not only in performing it correctly, BUT in observing that which is hidden within. When that occurs, the understanding of what we are about dispels any concerns that our Ritual is a meaningless jumble.[/quote] I'll just say it flat-out: Things like this make me feel doltish. I feel like there are all these wonderful meanings beneath the surface of the catechisms and perambulations that elude me. I'm not dumb; I've a gentle, humble spirit and want to feel proficient. Reading that I'm missing out on things right in front of my face, however, makes me feel like a pretender, a "Master" in name only.
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