staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 17, 2005 18:26:08 GMT
In the second degree charge we are told that we are permitted to extend our research into the hidden mysteries of nature and science.
I have been thinking quite deep on this subject and may be of the belief that this refers to much of what we have been discussing on this board re esoterical,spiritual,numbers,energy.
I may be wrong but what are other peoples perception and understanding of the hidden mysteries of nature and science.
It is still a bit of a mystery to me
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Post by a on Jan 17, 2005 18:46:02 GMT
Staffs
It is still a mystery to me as well, but could I suggest that as you continue your inward journey, which you can do with the tools in your ritual, it will in time make more and more sense. Or bewilderment. It is a hard and lonely path to travel, but you have brothers who can help you on your way.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 17, 2005 18:49:51 GMT
But what one thing means to one person will mean something completely different to the other.
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Post by a on Jan 17, 2005 18:59:40 GMT
Indeed.
But that is not the crux of the issue. Meanings gained evolve with your personal level of evolution.
We have a big external world around us, where we look externally for answers, in nature, in science, wherever.
Could I suggest however that many answers lie hidden within, and when you look within you can begin to find them. Knock at the door to yourself.
Could I also suggest that Freemasonic ritual is one means of helping you do this. If you want further insight could I point you in the direction of your SRIA, or some of the Hermetic or kabbalistic books sold on the other forum. Though be careful which ones you start with. Or even some of the posters on this forum, who will hopefully jump in and help you here. And you know where I am.
The hidden mysteries of nature and science are hidden in plain sight. It is just being able to find the light so that you can then see.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 17, 2005 19:07:26 GMT
Staffs When you take your 3rd Degree, there are certain parts of the ritual that if you think about will let you know the answer to your question, the problem is that in most Lodges the wording has been accidently changed by people over the years. (It is amazing what happens when you accidently add an 's' to the end of a word!) I dont want to get all 'mysterious' on you but when you have taken your 3rd I will run through it with you! In the meantime I know you will be 'pacing' around the room thinking "what can it be?" but you will just have to wait. ;D To Master Masons The extension of the s is on the import of the pass word there is no s in the original ritual. Without the s you should be able to work out why you extended your researches and the knowledge that you should of gained! ;
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 17, 2005 19:09:19 GMT
And whoever said there is nothing esoteric about Freemasonry ?
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 17, 2005 19:09:47 GMT
so many strnge thoughts buzzing around in my head ??
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Post by staffs on Jan 17, 2005 19:32:00 GMT
And whoever said there is nothing esoteric about Freemasonry ? Exactly Chris and to think this is a subject that was once not allowed elsewhere. The more i research and listen and learn the bigger a part of Freemasonry i can see that it actually is. ooh i get so excited sometines i can feel the energy bursting to get out. i bet you can feel my enthusiasm.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 17, 2005 19:52:19 GMT
Yes that is very true Chris and I have often thought that myself, it changes the significance completely, but I fear that it is lost on most Brethren and some would argue that the additional S is correct and we are wrong!
On the broader aspect as one who works in a Scientific Discipline -Instrument Calibration and Electronics- I find that the more I understand of these subjects the more I respect God, the Creator of our Universe and wonder at His Wisdom. Indeed one of my favourite Hymns is "How Great Though Art" .
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Post by bevan on Jan 17, 2005 20:00:12 GMT
Staffs, the mysteries of nature are right there in front of us. We display them in our make-up, from our outward, five-fold symmetry to our inward DNA structure and rate of photon emission. Nature is a symphony of number and pattern from string-theory vibration to the movement of the planets. Music provides a natural gift from which to observe and relate all this. In lodge we always seek to preserve "harmony". Sound also has an effect on our brain, the tubules of which operate as quantum processors. Deep meditation can allow one to avoid "collapsing the wave function" and hence glimpse wholeness with the Universe.
In an infinite universe there is nothing new under the sun. Everything exists in a state of infinite potential and must be uncovered as we experience "time". When we "observe" it we define it and experience Life as we know it. I think it is a shame that so many take the easy way out searching for convoluted and mysterious-sounding esoteric paths so well trodden by others. That is not my path at all.
As a FellowCraft (like me) I think you should concentrate on the Trivium and the Quadrivium, being the 7 Liberal Arts. As FellowCraft we receive our wages in the Middle Chamber, which is half way between the above and the below.
Trivium = Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric. These qualities should develop as one is exposed to other Masons and through the social side of the Craft.
Quadrivium = Arithmetic (number); Geometry (number in space); Music (number in time) and Astronomy (number in space and time). These are personal studies and although some Masons could assist, I believe the depth and direction of your study is up to you i.e. it is your journey.
I think we often need to be careful of searching for things that do not exist. I don't believe there is a "magic silver bullet" except for what is right in front of us each day. As I said above, I believe there are any number of pseudo-esoteric theories that have been advanced over the ages. Each seems to try to grasp that which cannot be grasped. As Lao Tzu supposedly said, "the Tao that is told is not the true Tao". At the end of the day the personal transformation is mental and yours alone. The mysteries of Nature are not ours until we become an integrated part of Her. Whether we can do this fully in our lifetime remains to be seen. If we did I doubt we would be posting here, no offence to your forum of course. In the meantime we can observe and be thankful for Her Beauty.
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Post by staffs on Jan 17, 2005 20:03:13 GMT
Bevan,wow what an answer .I am printing that off and will have to rtead it in quiet so i can fully grasp what you are saying.Thanks
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 17, 2005 20:25:53 GMT
Bevan
It is very good to see that as a Fellowcraft you are indeed studying the hidden mysteries of Nature & Science, and while I disagree with some of your answer (on the theoretical side) I can agee with much you have written.
Now if we look at what people understand by the term 'esoteric' we may agree a lot more than it seems, I quote "as a fellowcraft we receive our wages in the middle chamber which is half way between above and below".
This is surely an interpration that you have made and may well be correct, this is not for me to say I enjoy and see your interpretation.
What I have tried to say to Staffs is that once you have taken your third there is a definate explanation, unfortunatley because a certain word has been changed it takes on a different meaning, which a lot of people are now unaware of.
Once you know the correct pronounciation you can determine your own interpretation, again your interpretation can be yours and yours alone but I doubt it would be much different to mine, I feel that you would understand the ritual for what it is.
Until you take your 3rd we will not find out the answer to this will we?
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Post by staffs on Jan 17, 2005 20:28:56 GMT
Roll on April 8th for me then we can talk about this some more.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 18, 2005 9:08:46 GMT
Staffs
In my view, the mysteries of nature are investigated through energy sensitivity and clairvoyance.
Once these are established the mysteries rapidly become less so.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by bevan on Jan 18, 2005 9:39:06 GMT
Hi middlepillar, in no way did I mean to suggest that your prior post was in any way pseudo-esoteric. Staffs, if you're in London on 9th March then Gresham College (the Invisible College of the early Rosicrucians) is hosting a lecture on "Religion and the Quantum World". See www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=45&EventId=271 for more info. We would be lost in our world without Pythagorus' theorem, of which Euclid's 47th proof is well known to us as Masons. Consider that the relationship between any two things is often defined by the third. This is true from the quantum scale to the planetary scale. Also, "Finite things which are circumscribed and shaped can be grasped by the mind: infinite and unbounded things, insofar as they are such, can be held in by no bonds of knowledge, which is obtained from definitions, by no bonds of constitutions. For shapes are in the archetype prior to their being in the product; in the divine mind prior to being in creatures, differently indeed in respect of their subject, but the same in the form of their essence." From Kepler's "Harmonice Mundi".
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Post by bevan on Jan 18, 2005 11:04:58 GMT
...Once these are established the mysteries rapidly become less so. Indeed. But there will always be more mysteries. Our journey starts when we've found our path. I personally believe the path of the mystic differs from that of the occultist. I consider Masonry to be more occult than mystic. I think the path of the mystic is much harder but it may also be the shorter route to the top of the mountain. I practise my own form of eastern mysticism. It is not Masonry as far as I can see. Trying to make the two paths one could lead to some confusion. I think Theosophy has a lot to answer for in this regard. Of course there are zillions of varied paths to the top of the mountain. Everyone is free to pick and choose what works for them. Whilst the view may differ on the way up it is much the same at the top.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 19, 2005 10:03:27 GMT
The mystic path seems to me to be one of looking for union with the source - in some cases motivated by a disdain for the physical world. Thus there can be an undertone of the mystic being rather than doing. (there are of course counter examples, Francis of Assisi comes to mind)
For myself the occult path seems more active. As if there is some role that TGAOTU will delegate to us as we understand the mysteries of nature.
But I might be biassed by thinking that I have things to do.
Shall we consider that all matter is illusion and sit and wait for union with the source, or judgement day or salvation or UFOs to take us away?
A bit tongue in cheek here.
Russell
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Post by staffs on Jan 19, 2005 18:52:44 GMT
After my initial question starting this thread it is certainly most interesting to view the different perceptions of ones undersatnding of the subject matter.
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Post by a on Jan 19, 2005 20:11:57 GMT
Russell
Your tongue in cheek comments cant go unanswered.
It would be great to sit in a room with representatives of all of the different alien species that have been reported so often through our history and chat. You never know what would be accomplished. I can but dream.
Forgive me Russell, but I have been a ufo buff for a few years, and your comments made me smile.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 20, 2005 10:05:50 GMT
Stewart
The native peoples of the whole world (as far as I know) tell us that they did not invent anything. All of them tell us they were taught everything by humanoids that came from across the sea or through the air. (not all with human heads)
Thus they tell us that their spiritual teachings were given to them by technically advanced beings.
This leads me directly to question whether most religion is derived from aliens?
And as a side note:
The Elohim of Genesis have their naming from the Sumerian "ilu" which means lofty or tall - lots of "l"s in those words.
And you will have noticed how tall Osiris is in Egytpian depictions - seated his head is still the height of adult human heads - reported as 17 feet tall , and black skinned.
So then I ask myself, is "The Most High" of the Old Testament, the tallest of the gods as well as the most important as well as coming from farthest away?
Cheers
Russell
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