staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 21, 2005 8:23:08 GMT
Bardon Methology ?? Stewart please explain to the uninformed ?
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 21, 2005 8:42:10 GMT
Two ways of spelling the word, but perhaps the most confusing thing of all is that I dont think they are talking about magic as we at first understand it (As Whistler has said and I agree I dont believe in that form of magic) but are describing things far more spiritual and if you like esoteric, invocational stuff.
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Post by a on Jan 21, 2005 10:20:52 GMT
Bardon Methology ?? Stewart please explain to the uninformed ? Don't assume that I am informed here Lee. I have read his books yes, but that is it. I have come to understand that some Freemasons take them very seriously. You can buy them on tfm. Hermetic science. Frabato the Magician, is a novel based on Bardons life experiences. A good starting point. Initiation into Hermetics, is a step by step how to guide to all of this stuff, which some may call magic. Some call it Freemasonry. Some may call it worthy of study in side orders. Some may call it the Western Mystery Tradition, some may call rubbish. What it does give you is a detailed background on how to master the powers that you have within you. The Practice of Magical Evocation, instructs you how to call upon spirits, elementals, other beings, whatever and how to bring them under your control. In detail. The Key to the True Kabbalah again is an instructional book on how to delve deeply into one (more advanced)aspect of the Kabbalah. These books can be very heavy going, and within their pages is a step by step, lesson by lesson, guide on how to be a magician. For want of a better term. And before anyone asks, yes I have read the books, but no I do not follow the lessons. I just find them academically interesting. But I do think about his writings which I do regard very highly. But Lee buy Frabato. It is short and fun. If it makes you feel uncomfortable then you can take comfort in the fact that it is a novel. If you can relate to it you can take comfort in the fact that the book states that it is based on reality and then move on to his other practical instruction books noted above. You can buy them from the other place, but you can also find them in bookshops, and psssst do you want to know a secret Lee....come a little closer so no one else will hear....you will find Hermetic science being taken seriously within parts of Freemasonry (or at least parts of the wider masonic world), just have a look around.
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Post by bevan on Jan 21, 2005 11:58:46 GMT
I might add with knowledge fear vanishes. Same thing with faith. Whatever works for you and makes you feel good. You will never know if your "knowledge" is Right or Wrong, assuming of course that a Right or Wrong even exists. We can only ever hold a mirror up to what we "perceive" is our current reality and hope for the best fit. One may even exist on multiple planes across time but we should not fool ourselves that any of these experieces or aspects of existence are THE one. The mind may indeed be the bridge (i.e. bodymind --- mindspirit) but the body is tethered to this 3 dimensional universe of physical existence and there is a certain reality in this universe that we shouldn't ignore. The higher the mind the closer we may get to spirit but the further we may drift from the body. How many of us are working on what we think is a higher mind in expectation of our next life? Are we perhaps letting the practical lessons of this life slip us by? Who of us really (really) Loves and gives Relief. For it is only by giving (doing) that we can receive. This is the problem I have with luxuriating in magic(k)al mental masturbation. I believe Masonry is a practical path (pertaining initially to this existence) which prepares the mind to cross the bridge to spirit. Death might be quite good at this too. But theoretical higher Masonry has been available to everyone since "time began". Masonry appears to only have ever borrowed various insights from older cultures that might have known a higher mind. Invoking legends and other people's interpretations of those legends is one thing. Knowing and living your own Key to your own existence is quite another.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 21, 2005 16:07:30 GMT
I believe Masonry is a practical path (pertaining initially to this existence) which prepares the mind to cross the bridge to spirit. Death might be quite good at this too. But theoretical higher Masonry has been available to everyone since "time began". Masonry appears to only have ever borrowed various insights from older cultures that might have known a higher mind. Invoking legends and other people's interpretations of those legends is one thing. Knowing and living your own Key to your own existence is quite another. Bevan Very interesting point, I have always believed that man today has lost many uses of his Body. EG. Small toe, Tonsils a lot of the intestine etc, but we must of needed these things many years ago. I feel that just using these as examples we know we only use about 20% of our Brain/Mind (Perhaps I am wrong on the percentage?). I really feel that we have lost the use of the other 80% because our road to this point in our civilisation has inadvertantly shut down a lot of processes that are no longer needed. What was there before language? What senses could there of been? I know I am on a journey of discovery as I know many on this Forum feel the same, and I feel comfortable with my choice of vehicle, I am glad to of found the way I am taking but it may not suit everyone. This Forum is great for all of us to share our thoughts with each other (however wacky/weird) and maybe be attracted to things that we would not know about otherwise? I do know from reading Posts from our Co-Masons if you are more esoterically minded it is easier to follow the Path with them than with us, easier it may be but I am still content to have as much opened up for me as has been through our side orders and 'Higher' Degrees
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 21, 2005 16:16:08 GMT
This forum has really broadened my path in freemasonry and i feel very lucky and privileged to learn so much from all of yousingularly and collectively.
I meet so mant masons who seem to be a little bit lost and do not follow any path.
I am at least on the path but have no idea where its going at the moment.
I keep visiting all these little shops on the way along this path and stopping for further information and moving along to learn some more.Maybe i am on the circle path from which no mason can err ?? maybe it continues revolving and we pick off the information and learning we need.( a bit like a food carousel in a restaurant) i know thats a bit of a crude explanation but in simple terms for me.
Thank you all for helping and may you continue to do so and i hope people have learnt from myself also.
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Post by a on Jan 21, 2005 16:47:10 GMT
I meet so mant masons who seem to be a little bit lost and do not follow any path. Pity especially with so much in-house help being available. Give it time, your understanding here will come.It was different with me. I just stumbled across all of this in my daily life, then I began to research into it and found the "shops". I can tell you that if you want to you will learn more and I suspect that it will not be too long before phrases like "knock at the door and it will open" will take on new meanings for you. Just take your time "everything happens for a reason" and I am sure that with sufficient thought and will you will find your way in this regard. Just remember it is not a competition, you will get there when you are ready. It is just a pity that you have to be a MM (and pay extra money) to join SRIA, as it could I think (from what I can see externally remember) help you structure your journey into the areas that you have expressed interest in. [Appologies if I misunderstand SRIA, and please forgive the money comment, I just think that the physicalities of life can get in the way of coming to know yourself].
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Post by bevan on Jan 21, 2005 17:16:51 GMT
middlepillar, I too believe that there are parts of our bodymind that we may have lost the purpose for. Our material urban evolution has blinded us to a more holistic, nature-based lifestyle. I have no doubt that the pineal gland (which Descartes referred to as the 'Seat of the Soul') is one of the main victims. The pineal gland is linked to serotonin and melatonin production, as well as (perhaps) DMT regulation. DMT is a hallucinogenic triptamine compound that is present in our nervous system in minute trace quantities. It is thought to be released under stress when we pass through the tunnel of birth or death. It is known as the "Spirit Molecule". Some studies have shown that babies born by caesarean section (i.e. less stress) show more of a tendency to atheism in later life. Buddhists believe that the lifeforce enters the embryo at around 49 days, after having spending the required time in the bardo states. The pineal gland is formed in the embryo at the same time. But the myth that we use only 10% of our brains is just that - a myth. It is supported by psychics to suggest that there is supposedly all this latent power available to us. We use all of our brains but we don't use them very well. Our conscious, subconscious (and universal conscious) minds are not very well integrated with each other. I particularly like the Penrose-Hammeroff "Orch-OR" neurological model which, I think, helps explain how to get better integration. In practise I believe that deep meditation and the eastern concept of "no-mind" are right on the money. Basically, millions of linked microtubule 'qubits' in our brain function as quantum computers. They can exist as both 0 and 1 at the same time (like wave/particle etc...) until each moment of conscious thought, at which point in time the wave function is collapsed and a unique thought pattern (of these millions of zeros and ones) is etched into time. Whilst in the infinite quantum state we may be able to get in touch with the universal mind which is part and parcel of the entire universe. Apologies for waffling on.... As far as co-masonry being more in touch with the esoteric path, I guess that's a matter of opinion. There are a lot of different esoteric paths and I would not want my Masonry to dictate which one to follow. Not that I think co-masonry does... Bleurgh...!! I'm getting myself tongue-twisted, it's late on a Friday and I'm off ski-ing. Have a good weekend everyone!
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Post by whistler on Jan 21, 2005 18:36:45 GMT
Bevan mentioned mind being a bridge to spirfit - Here is a little idea I am exploring - Look at the Lambs Brains in the Butcher shop, or a picture of a human brain in a book. Then think of the incredible knowledge, thoughts, instincts controls and more that we can find in our minds. In a normal dream think of how many random or ancient memories are played around with , I can find my password for entry to this forumin my mind. Nobody could take my brain wire it or disect it and find that word.. A medium Could . If all our Knowledge was stored in an etheric bubble around us perhaps part of our Aura with our brain or somepart of us just a communicator - Now Just how loopy an idea can might this be. P.S. Picking up on comments at the end of some of the posts here - I don't think Co-masonry can claim any Esoteric high ground in our debate - I have not been in a Male Craft Lodge so can't compare but I am sure any esoteric difference is just the paths we are on -
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Post by a on Jan 21, 2005 19:47:21 GMT
Surely what is important is whether a specific path works?
Does a path help its people as they travel through life (I mean esoterically as in coming to know yourself better, smoothing the ashlar, coming closer to the Divine, and not physically, as in deals etc). If it concentrates on the latter it may loose its spiritual backing and become what it has created for itself. If it succeeds in the former then it will shine.
But ultimately all real knowledge comes from within, all that a specific path can hope to do is help you on your own way, with guidance, support and assistance. Ultimately however it is down to you. You can't buy such knowledge for until you have developed the eyes to see you will remain blind.
Which is why those in esoteric societies who are skilled have such an important role to play in our world. The total of the sum is more than its constituent parts, and the sharing of wisdom is so so important at this specific time in our evolution, which is one reason why I, as an individual, am so grateful to many of the posters here.
All in my profane opinion obviously.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 21, 2005 19:56:49 GMT
P.S. Picking up on comments at the end of some of the posts here - I don't think Co-masonry can claim any Esoteric high ground in our debate - I have not been in a Male Craft Lodge so can't compare but I am sure any esoteric difference is just the paths we are on - Whistler I only state this because from the outset it seems to me (I cant be sure but from what I have learnt) you in Co-Masonry are encouraged in esoteric study and Mind/Thought development, whereas I (I speak only for myself in the definate) and most UGLE Freemasons have to go and look for it by joining other Orders, so although both systems provide for it your system enables all of your members to consider it, we dont. If you want proof of this just pop over to TFM and read some of our 'friends' posts ;D
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Post by whistler on Jan 21, 2005 20:15:41 GMT
Interesting, on TFM, a number of posters have been talking about "Fraternity" A word not in common usage down here, but from movies and TV etc, I can certainly get a good idea of its meaning, and in places where Freemasonry has become a Male fraternity, I can't imagine any fellow joining for those reasons wanting to change things Nor would I expect them to. The change will come when visiting becomes permitted, even if it is only onesided as it is at the moment. This will not force genderless Freemasonry on the unwilling. I would hope the Word Co-mason will pass away. We might have some lodges men only, some women only and some mixed. The natural evolution of the willing will determine the growth or contraction of each
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Post by bevan on Jan 21, 2005 20:18:59 GMT
<<I'm sneaking back in for a quick peek before the weekend...>>
I find it a little sad that the more esoteric brethren amongst us tend to knock the more practical / social brethren amongst us. And vice-versa of course. I think Masonry can accomodate all-comers and each Mason will seek out that which helps them on their path. I like the fact that it purposely avoids pushing a certain esoteric view on us.
The underlying moral and esoteric lesson are there for those that seek them and the social aspects help us to make them real. For instance the Brotherhood of the Essenes and many other esoteric groups eat and socialise after their ritual work. I think it seeps into you whether your eyes are open to it or not.
I appreciate that each one of us is different but Masonry for me is not my main esoteric path. I find swallowing Pike and other Rosicrucian-like romanticists of their day a little too much for me. Of course we are all unique and I will never stand in the way of another's belief. For what they each come to know and experience is part of our greater shared experience.
whistler, in many ways I would like traditional Masonry to be open to women to as I think that is the more moral option. But at the moment I am enjoying the shared company of my male Mason friends. Perhaps men are from Mars and women from Venus. Sometimes we need a little time on our own. It might help us to notice our own duality, whereas having a member of the opposite sex present could balance the polarity and destroy the opportunity...
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 21, 2005 20:25:11 GMT
Bevan Again I agree with you in the main, I firmly believe everyone should be entitled to follow their own direction, this negative opinion comes from the fact that when Posting on the TFM Forum every topic remotely esoteric was jumped on as being irrelevant to Freemasonry and if you think like that you must be "away with the fairies". Most of my Masonic Friends and there are quite alot of them after all these years are not esoterically minded and thoroughly enjoy their Masonry, long may it continue. But you must understand most of us do not knock them, all we want is some tolerance from them for our view point. As you say there is plenty of room for everyone
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Post by whistler on Jan 21, 2005 20:34:33 GMT
<<I'm sneaking back in for a quick peek before the weekend...>> whistler, in many ways I would like traditional Masonry to be open to women to as I think that is the more moral option. But at the moment I am enjoying the shared company of my male Mason friends. Perhaps men are from Mars and women from Venus. Sometimes we need a little time on our own. It might help us to notice our own duality, whereas having a member of the opposite sex present could balance the polarity and destroy the opportunity... Bevan - and Middlepillar I agree with all you say, but wouldn't it be nice if you could retain what you have and enhance your life by being able to visit a mixed mason lodge when you wish with out risk of penalty
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Post by bevan on Jan 21, 2005 20:38:48 GMT
middlepillar, I agree. These forums are great to share our more esoteric and whacky ideas with others but unfortunately they are probably the most public face of Freemasonry. One can easily understand (considering the history of religious fundamentalist attacks on the Craft) that many Masons would want to portray a more acceptable public face, especially when the more esoteric theories have not found general public acceptance. But who amongst us can really speak for another's mind in their small quiet moments of contemplation? Which needn't be in Lodge.
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Post by bevan on Jan 21, 2005 20:44:56 GMT
whistler, there's a lot of things in life that I think are nice yet I've never physically experienced them. I'm sure sitting in a co-mason lodge would be wonderful and perhaps one day I will be able to. But it's not for me at the moment.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 21, 2005 21:36:02 GMT
Many years ago my wife and I belonged to the local AMORC (mail order Rosicrucian) lodge.
The lodge had a range of seekers and a few social members. Anyway my wife dreamed one night that the lodge ran a soup kitchen and that many people came for the soup but few wanted to know how it was made.
I thought that was pretty fair description of the lodge.
Some months later a long term member of the lodge dreamed that she went into the temple and folded up the temple and put it on her back and left. (I had ceased lodge membership by then).
Years later I would often see in meditation groups a lodge pavement open up in the midst of the meditation circle and fold up again as the energy diminished.
So I suggest that while lodges can accommodate numbers of social masons, there may be some minimum number or proportion of serious masons for the lodge to function properly.
I don't know how common is for that proportion to exist.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 21, 2005 22:22:12 GMT
Going only slightly off topic, when this thread was started on the TFM Forum it lasted for 4 Posts! So is seems this Forum does fill a nich in the market ;D Once again well done and thanks Staffs
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Post by leonardo on Jan 21, 2005 22:35:53 GMT
Yes Chris. This is certainly the place for good, honest open debate. As long as there's no nastiness Lee and gang encourage such discussion.
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