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Post by whistler on Feb 22, 2005 23:30:15 GMT
Thanks Middlepillar.
we had an excellant talk about "Compte de St Germain" in Lodge a couple of years ago... I will see If I can get a copy and will post it.
How you see the Compte depends a little on how you accept the concept of "Ascended Masters"
Regardless legend of the Compte is full of intrigue and fascination.
How did the lecture you attended approach the subject...
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Post by middlepillar on Feb 23, 2005 8:14:04 GMT
Whistler, How did I know you would be interested? The guy who gave the Lecture basically split it in to two.Probably true, probably untrue. (quickly dispelled was the claim he was Rasputin!) This worked reasonably well, the thing he managed to do (for me) was to prove the Compte de St Germain himself was not a fraud, any fraud was laid firmly at other people. And any comparison with the other chap whom I can't spell his name Cagliostori? who ripped many people off was quickly dispelled. There unfortunately was no conclusion (you wouldn't expect one, would you?) but I personally left with a much higher regard for him than when I went in to the lecture. I left the Lecture at Hampstead and I will pick it up next week, if you want I will Post some extracts from it (I will check this is OK with the author first).
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Post by whistler on Feb 23, 2005 9:18:33 GMT
Thanks Middlepillar, Yes I hope to see the Lady who gave the lecture I refered to at Lodge on Saturday so with luck I should also be able to post exerts we can compare Notes ;D
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Feb 24, 2005 4:45:08 GMT
Our "Fictitious Head" -- T.H.O.A.T.F is epitomised in our Order by "The Count St Germain" also regarded as incarnating as Francis Bacon, Valentine Andreus, amongst others. Whilst we do not have specific proof of the above it is generally accepted by our Brn. thou' not a requirement.
I posted this on the "reincarnation" topic on the 9th feb. I used to have a manuscript of most of his incarnations, but it keeps myseriously disappearing whenever i want to do more research on the subject. I think Manly Palmer HALL also makes mention of him in his writtings.
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 24, 2005 11:23:52 GMT
Cagliostro, you mean. The G is silent, or rather mutates the L into the lli- sound of million: cal yee os tro.
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Post by middlepillar on Feb 24, 2005 12:12:03 GMT
Cagliostro, you mean. The G is silent, or rather mutates the L into the lli- sound of million: cal yee os tro. Thanks Ruff I knew you could put me right ;D (it wasnt a bad effort though was it?)
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Post by whistler on Feb 24, 2005 20:25:56 GMT
Watch this spot I expect to post from the St Germain lecture on Sunday .
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Post by whistler on Feb 26, 2005 22:43:03 GMT
As promised - Complete with my Typo's - Part 1 Who is Comte St Germain
It is said that as early as the third century AD, he took a keen interest in Freemasonry. At that time he was known as Albanus the son of a noble Roman family who were living in England, in the Roman town of Verulamium at the time of his birth.
While still a young man he went to Rome to join the army. It was in Rome that he was initiated into Freemasonry. He was also proficient in the Mithraic Mysteries, which were also closely associated with Freemasonry.
Some time after this he returned to his hometown of Verulamium where he held position of “ The master of the Works”. He was also the Imperial Paymaster.
Albanus introduced Freemasonry to England and it is said that he brought from France certain ancient charges, which are practically identical with those we use today.
In the year 303 he was beheaded by the Emperor Diocletain and 500 years later St Albans Abbey named after him was build over his remains.
His next incarnation was in Constantinople in 411 and went by the name of Proclus. He was a great exponent of Neo-Platonism and his influence overshadowed the mediaeval Christian church.
We next hear of him as Roger Bacon a Franciscan Fear born in 1211 during this incarnation he was a reformer of theology. An English philosopher and pioneer scientist in 1268 He sent a copy of his “Opus Minus” and “Opus Majus” a compendium on all branches of knowledge to his friend Pope Clement IV, in 1277 he was condemned by the Church and imprisoned for “certain novelties”, he was released in 1292. He was one of the most original and bold thinkers of the Middle Ages. He foresaw the magnifying property of the convex lense, the extensive use of gunpowder, and the possibility of mechanical boats and flying machines.
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Post by whistler on Feb 26, 2005 22:44:04 GMT
Part 2 In 1375 he was born as Christian Rosenkreutz. It was during this lifetime that he founded the Rosicrucian Society.
The next incarnation of note was that of Francis Bacon in 1561, during that particular lifetime he wrote a secret cipher story in the many works he published In 1618 he was appointed Lord Chancellor and raised to the peerage as Lord Verulum and in 1621 he was created Viscount St Albans.
In the 17th Century he was born as Jozsef Rakoczi, a prince of Transylvania however not much us known about this lifetime.
It was in the 18th Century that he was known as the Comte St Germain, it is said that he was a handsome, elegant man apparently in his 40’s and a favorite at the French court of Louis XV, in the ornate aristocratic salons. In the murky inns they discussed with awe and considerable relish the man who was “amazing as a witch” and whom all France knew as the “Deathless One”.
He claimed to have made an elixir that had kept him alive for 1000 years, that he could remover the flaws from diamonds and increase the size of pearls. There is certainly a lot of mystery and intrigue around him.
One day 1758 whilst talking with Madame La Pompadour she asked him if Francis the First was a man she could have loved? To which the Comte replied that he – Francis was a good sort of fellow but too fiery and that he would not listen to his advice. Nothing strange about this conversation you may say, until we realize that they were discussing King Francis who had been dead for 300 years when the conversation took place.
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Post by whistler on Feb 26, 2005 22:44:50 GMT
Part 3 It is claimed he had been jailed by the English for his alleged sympathies with Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1745.
Fifteen years later in 1760 he gave an interview with the London Chronicle. On 1762 he held an important office in Russia and in 1770 he appeared in Naples in the uniform of a Russian General. Count Orloff, Commander in Chief of the Russian Armies, a man not given to compliments paid public tribute to the work Comte St Germain had done in Russia.
In 1790 he was back in Paris, not looking a day older, here he met the Countess Adhemen, who mentioned the meeting in her memories which were published in 1820. It was during the French Revolution that many stories of his exploits abound – about sightings of him at many differed locations as he aided France, about how he was able to avoid capture. The stories of the Scarlet Pimpernel by the Baroness Emmuska Orczy. Are based on his exploits during the French Revolution.
During the war with Prussia, King Louis XV sent the Comte to The Hague to make arrangement with his personal friend Duke Louis of Brunswick for a separate peace with Prussia. There is no record of his death. Reports say that he went to Venice to make artificial silk out of flax. It is also reported that Annie Besant claimed to have met him once in London. C W Leadbeater had a long conversation with him in 1901.
Just who was the Comte St Germain? Natural son of the King of Portugal A member of the Spanish Royal Family An Italian An Ascended Master Chohan of the Seventh Ray
It is for you to decide.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 27, 2005 1:39:15 GMT
Thank you Whistler. I first read of the Count in my teens amongst my various studies into the Occult, Mystical, Comparative Religion, etc.
Tell me, who is he reckoned to have been Incarnated as during the 20th century and is he still in bodily form now or temporarily out of Incarnation as far as is known?
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Post by whistler on Feb 27, 2005 3:21:12 GMT
Thank you Whistler. I first read of the Count in my teens amongst my various studies into the Occult, Mystical, Comparative Religion, etc. Tell me, who is he reckoned to have been Incarnated as during the 20th century and is he still in bodily form now or temporarily out of Incarnation as far as is known? Taylorsman, I am not sure maybe Hubert may have an answer. I would add that It was a couple of years back when Master of our Lodge I asked a Bro to prepare a lecture on the Comte , the postings above were the result
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Post by maat on Feb 27, 2005 22:33:32 GMT
Tell me, who is he reckoned to have been Incarnated as during the 20th century and is he still in bodily form now or temporarily out of Incarnation as far as is known?
Carl Jung
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Post by middlepillar on Mar 1, 2005 15:47:26 GMT
An interesting fact that was brought up in the lecture I heard was that The Compte de St Germain never had a 'Place of Abode' and that he was never short of money.
In this lecture our presenter suggested 2 lines of parentage and if one was correct the money could be explained by the wealth of the family however if he was born to the other line this would not of explained his apparent wealth....interesting...
And Whistler I will not be able to pick the Lecture up until next Tuesday so I cant add to this until then. Sorry.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Mar 4, 2005 0:48:50 GMT
Another interesting fact about the Count: He would from time to time hold sumptuous dinner parties, where each guest would be seated by means of jewel (diamonds) encrusted name cards which where theirs to keep. However At these events he was never seen to eat. A suggestion being that the Count had found the secret to life, existence in the ether alone.
To explain this, I posit the following theory: Theosphy has taught me the planes of existence (kingdoms) - ether, mineral, vegetable, animal, human, super human, accended being.
From that investigation I have surmised that:
The mineral kingdom lives on ether alone. The vegetable on ether & mineral. The animal on ether, mineral & vegetable. The Human on ether, mineral, vegetable & animal. The super human on vegetable, mineral & ether, The accended being onmineral/ether leading to ether only.
The above could be an explanation as to how an individual such as the count can live far longer than the norm as there is no body decay as the body needs no digestion of emmission to survive.
For me this is still an hypothesis yet to be proved, but has its starting blocks in the statement itself.
Anyone care to comment?
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Post by atarnaris on Mar 11, 2005 0:15:43 GMT
Sorry Ruff, but my friend claims exactly the same. And I am dead serious about it !
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Post by whistler on Mar 13, 2005 7:28:53 GMT
Many people want a part of St Germain and who knows who is correct. For those people who believe in Ascended Masters He is very important - so we shouldn't mock him on the Forum He is said to be the Chohan of the Seventh Ray which flows now in increasing intensity as His ceremonial Ray takes hold in consciousness of mankind.
I would suggest that a Chohan of the ceremonial Ray fits well into our Masonic Ritual.
In an AUM Lodge above the North Chair there is often pictures of all the Ascended Masters.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 13, 2005 8:05:43 GMT
I certainly would not mock. My personal jury is still out on the Compte de St Germain but too many accounts have been given of this personality to discount him as a mere folk legend. My concern is that whilst he is mentioned in past centuries, there is no account of him in the very troubled times of the 20th century. When one considers events such as WW1 and the Russian Revolution, the Rise of Nazism, the Holocaust, the post WW2 problems , then I would have thought he would have put in an appearance then. Does anyone claim that HE was there and under what identity?
As for Ruff, he has a sense of humour which is not to everybody's taste, I can't say I am too keen on it myself sometimes, but I don't think he meant to deliberately offend. I suppose he COULD be an Incarnation of the Compte, although I feel it highly unlikely, but at least it makes a change from the usual famous figures that people claim to be such as Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Hitler or Mary Queen of Scots!
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Mar 14, 2005 9:14:50 GMT
"For those people who believe in Ascended Masters He is very important - so we shouldn't mock him on the Forum. He is said to be the Chohan of the Seventh Ray [...]"
If he really were all those grandiloquent things, you'd think at least he'd have a sense of humour.
Sorry, folks, I fully intend to mock seven shades of 5hit out of him: he's dead, and from all I can tell so are his lawyers; which makes him a fake by my reckoning. A dead fake. Get over it.
And I am him, so there!
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 14, 2005 9:54:27 GMT
So Ruff, please do not ask for sympathy if others mock and ridicule that which you hold dear. If you chose this as your weapon then you can be hurt in turn by it.
There are many matters of Religion, Politics, Affiliation and Orientation where, given a free hand I could be trenchant , even vitriolic in my mockery and derision but I chose to stay my hand out of respect for those who hold such matters dear. To my mind it is like the child and the adult, the child pulls the wings off the butterfly because he can, he exercises Power, the adult refrains for doing so, he can but chooses NOT to, he practices Restraint.
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