staffs
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Post by staffs on Mar 19, 2005 18:20:06 GMT
Stewart,sorry i just re read realised WHAT you actually wrote and the context of the post.
Must get my brain working before using my fingers .
Better still read and digest the previous posts before posting might help.
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Post by munkholt on Mar 19, 2005 19:37:23 GMT
For me charity plays a very minor part. It's a natural extension of the idea of Brotherly Love. But I am quite happy to keep it anonymous, and the main portion should be given to major relief organisations.
For two reasons: associating Freemasonry with donations limits the public perspective of What It's All About, making it hard to distinguish FM from charity clubs, like Lion's. I also prefer for it to be a modest gesture, not call attention to itself. Secondly, keeping it generalised and quiet makes it less of a sore point for me: otherwise it does have a negative association, where Freemasonry is a club for the ruling class, handing out donations. See, to me charity is partly about patching up flaws in modern society; jobs and welfare should be dealt with through financial/employment/social/foreign politics, not through charity. (And let me just emphasize: the last bit was to point out why we should keep it quiet, not to start a revolution.)
Btw, I'm realising that this is getting pretty far off topic. I'll go think about an answer to the original question.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 20, 2005 17:49:58 GMT
While this may be true of some lodges in your part of the world, it certainly isn't true of all of them, and you do freemasonry in 'your part of the world' a grave dis-service, as well as exposing your dis-satisfaction with it as practised where you live. If it isn't living up to all you feel it can do then become an agent for change - look into ideas like the Masonic Restoration and find like minded masons who will help you.... Hmm...somehow you misread the tone of my message. I think what we do in our lodge is GREAT! I am extremely enthusiastic about what we are and what we do. The only thing I am a bit 'dissatisfied' with is when people try to make Masonry out to be something much more inovlved than it actually is. *We dedicate ourselves to the highest standard of moral conduct. *We are patriotic to our country and act as good citizens. *We strive to help others through works of charity as well as in our day to day conduct. *We form a bond of freindship which is both wholesome and harmonious. *We participate in a ritual that, though it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, is centuries old and rich with tradition. I was *not* being dissatisfied, I am in fact completely and thoroughly thrilled with my Freemason experience. This is what Freemasony is for me, and pretty much rest of the members of the blue lodge of Missouri in the United States. If your experience of Freemasonry is so different, I would be most curious to hear about it. Do you practice significantly different ritual? Do you not dedicate yourself to the same principles and act upon them in your life? I have read *VOLUMES* of material over the past four months and the one thing I can tell you with great certainty is that nobody 'knows' what Freemason ritual actuallly 'is'. I know this to be true because every single book I have read, written by Masons, has a completely different opinion on the topic. Freemason ritual is a vast rorscharch test. Everybody sees in it what they want to see in it.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 20, 2005 18:02:10 GMT
Some questions for thought. Given that there are Freemasons out there (including on this forum) who know that Freemasonry is much much more than this, why does there appear to be so many lodges where the members miss the real essence of Freemasonry? Following on from this, is it any real suprise that Freemasonry is currently facing so many issues in society? Surely the solution is for true Freemasons who have properly prepared themselves in their hearts to stand up and guide? And I know that this is happening, but I also know that too many despair at how bad things have become and get worn down by the unmasonic behaviour of some of the clubbers. Think about the true Freemasons who you know personally, and those that you know through the forums who have simply "had enough." I just think that it is about time responsibility is taken. And that will take the opening of many hearts to work together in harmony for the mutual good. After all what does it say about Freemasonry, if true Freemasons can't guide and help their own brothers on their personal journies, where the concept of illumination appears to have sometimes been mislaid, and where true Freemasons are too often forced out of organised Freemasonry through exhaustion or bullying? How have I missed the real essence of Freemasonry? When I attend lodge I am reminded of my responsibility to conduct myself by the highest standard of moral conduct and to befriend my brothers either in the lodge or without. This, to me, is the essense of Freemasonry. When I attend my education session, I am told how to follow certain rules of etiquite while in lodge. Is that the essence of Freemasonry? So far, the main thing I am confused about is exactly why men spend so much time memorizing a centuries old ritual, word for word, so they can perform this bit of theatre. The ritual itself makes little to no sense in a modern context, but we keep it alive for the sake of tradition. I cannot and will not go into details on a public forum, but there is relatively little in Masonic ritual that seems to have any particular meaning or purpose in a modern day context. Sure, bits and pieces about morality and symbols are clear, but these are a few phrases out of hours of other 'stuff' that makes no sense. My concern is that it takes so much time and effort to memorize and perform this ritual that I wonder couldn't that time be better spent supporting our chartiies in the community? To me, it seems we keep an ancient tradition alive purely for the sake of tradition alone. I do not actually tihnk that is a bad thing at all. The ritual teaches, in genera,l good moral lessons and form the framework for the institution. However, I don't see that it is anything 'more than that'. If that were the case, then I would find confirmation of such in Freemason materials; which I do not. Instead, I have stacks of books which try to associate the ritual with a hundreds of different ancient religious traditions. It is all guesswork and wishful thinking. All we know is we keep the tradition alive because we have always done it that way. I think that is just fine. So long as the organizatoin continues to hold itself to the highest standards of morality and inculcates that into its members, I fully support what we are doing. P.S. If someone on this forum actually believes they have the definitive 'meaning' of Freemason ritual I would love to have that reference. And, I am *not* looking for meaning in broad terms like 'the square stands for this' and 'the compass stands for that'. I mean an explanation of why every single word, phrase, and action is the way it is. Freemasons memorize this ritual with such exacting perfection while at the same time it makes no sense to the rational mind why knocking in a certain way 'means' anything special or asking trivial and pointless questions of one another 'means' something else.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 20, 2005 18:10:13 GMT
I have yet to meet a Brother who has given "To do Charitable work" as his reason for being a Member of The Craft. Taylorsman. You have now met one. I joined Freemasonry because I will not join an organized religious institution. For reasons far too complex and unharmonious for me to get into here. Because of this, I was looking for an institution that I could join, where I could perform charitable activities within my community. An organiziation that would not compromise my personal religious and moral values. I am pleased to say that Freemasonry has met this criteria perfectly. My only concern right now is that we seem to spend an enormous amount of time memroizing and performing ritual and relatively little doing charity work in the community. So, when I mentioned this to my WM during my education session, do you know what he said? He said, well that should be your calling. I have no great need or desire to go through the ranks of officers or memorize ritual. However, I might put on more pankake breakfasts and fundraisers than anyone in our lodge in the past ten years. And I will be very proud to make that contribution to our lodge and community. I greatly respect my lodge brothers who have taken great pain and effort to learn how to perform the ritual. So far, they have been nothing but supportive about my goal to volunteer to help with our charitable activities. P.S. I just realized that most who read this message will comment "Well, if you just wanted to belong to a charity you didn't need to become a Freemason." That is true. However, I wanted something 'more' than just a charitable organization. Because I will not join any other organized religious institution, I get out of Freemasonry the kind of spiritual affirmation I felt was lacking my life. Freemasony is deeply involved in spiiritual matters and that is not something you get in more secular charitable organization.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Mar 20, 2005 18:36:06 GMT
JR. i must say i respect your total honesty and can only say well done ,Your honesty is truly commendable
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Post by middlepillar on Mar 20, 2005 18:37:12 GMT
This thread has really changed since the first Post! It is extremely interesting how people are answering and asking questions at the same time; I would like to add this and then well run some more Freemasonry is; A peculiar system of maorality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols. Dont just learn the words, understand them! The Three great virtues of a Freemason are; Brotherly Love, Relief & Truth. Put the two together and maybe come up with an answer. JR, IMHO you do not need hundreds of books, the rituals may be old but modernising them like they have the Bible serves no purpose, the answer is in the ritual, I think sometimes people look to hard. The allegory is sometimes breathtakingly obvious and at the same time quite beautiful, it is not meant to be complicated. Anyway, thats my two pennies worth.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Mar 20, 2005 19:37:10 GMT
MP,
Thanks for that last post. i have written them down together and it certainly helps to understand a little better. Some further thinking and understanding required though by myself on that one.
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Mar 20, 2005 19:41:04 GMT
Middlepillar,
Furthermore we also need to understand what the words mean as well and having just checked the dictionary one as follows is defined
Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy.
..................................................................................... But the next line does it for me
......................................................................................
Thus an allegory is a story with two meanings, a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning.
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Post by middlepillar on Mar 20, 2005 20:12:33 GMT
Lee ;D
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Mar 20, 2005 21:19:03 GMT
Middlepillar ! Slowly but surely eh
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Mar 20, 2005 21:40:51 GMT
jratclif, " I joined Freemasonry because [...] I was looking for an institution that I could join, where I could perform charitable activities within my community. An organiziation that would not compromise my personal religious and moral values." What was wrong with joining ACTUP?
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 20, 2005 22:09:15 GMT
Middlepillar, Furthermore we also need to understand what the words mean as well and having just checked the dictionary one as follows is defined Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy. ..................................................................................... But the next line does it for me ...................................................................................... Thus an allegory is a story with two meanings, a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning. My question is, how does one learn this meaning? What is the 'meaning' of knocking on a door in a particular order? What is the 'meaning' of the opening ritual? What is the 'meaning' of every single other detail in the various rituals and ceremonies? Of course in some cases the meaning is quite obvious, as it is explained to you at the time. However, most of it doesn't make any sense; which is ok, I suppose. Afterall, I am uneducated. However, when I try to educate myself all I find is that no two people seem to have the same opinion as to what the ritual means. I have books that say it refers to the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Druids, the Sumerians, the Templars, the Neaplatonists, the Jews, you name it. They will have a theory that it is related to every pagan ritual in the history of mankind. Of course, when I read these things I am not encouraged. I don't, personally, think very highly of these ancient religious systems which were steeped in ignorance and often brutal in their practices. Some practiced animal and even human sacrifice. When I hear that the ritual of masonry might harken back to such an ancient time and that it echos these pagan rites, well, to be quite honest I don't feel illuminated. This is too close to the same reasons I won't have anything to do with organized religions. So, if I analyze Freemason ritual and only come face to face with some ancient reigious practices, I am not particularily inspired. I am asking a simple question. I am now a Master Mason. I am ready to be educated as to the meaning of ritual. Please give me the definitive reference for the meaning of Freemason ritual. Is it: "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" by Manly P. Hall, 1928 "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike, 1871 "The Mahabharata" by Krisha-Swaipayana Vyasia, 1883. "The Builders" by Joseph Fort Newman "The Dionysian Artifices" by Hippolyto Joseph da Costa, 1820 "Duncan's Masonic Ritaul and Monitor" by Lalcom C. Duncona, 1866 "The Offical Monitor of the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, State of Texas, 1922 "The Hiram Ke : Pharoauhs, Freemasonry, and the Discovery of the Secret Scrolls of Jesus" by Knight and Lomas "The Templar Revelation : Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ", Knight and Loma "The Book of Hiram : Freemasonry, Venus and the Secrete Key to the Life of Jesus, Knight and Lomas "Second Messiah : Templars, the Turin Shroud and the Great Secret of Freemasonry", Kinight and Lomas "Freemasonry and Its Ancient Mystic Rites", C.W. Leadbeater "Hidden Life in Freemasonry" C.W. Leadbeater "Glimpses of Masonic History", C.W. Leadbeater I could go on, but you get the point. Is the meaning of ritual as Leadbeater says, "to conduct an occult ritual to call upon the power of ascended masters and spread 'light' throughout humanity in the service of the secret brotherhood hidden over in the far east?" You see what I'm saying here? Perhaps if it is just a social organization of men performing charitable acts in their local community, maybe that is not only 'enough' but perhaps the most logical, apparent, and worthy explanation of all. Does it even matter so much what it once 'was' when our current focus should be on what it 'is' *today*. If we can't explain the organiztion in some rational way it will die out in a generation. Currently our lodges are primarily populated by retired men. Relatively few young people get involved at all anymore; and, when they do less than one in ten ever shows back up to lodge again. Their explanation is generally given 'that is just for a bunch of old men'. Learning the ritual is difficult, and if you can not assign some tangible and rational 'meaning' to it that you can easily communicate someone, let's say like myself, I'm afraid the institution will fade into oblivion. An extinct organization of interest eventually only to historians and conspiracy theorists.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 20, 2005 22:11:36 GMT
jratclif, " I joined Freemasonry because [...] I was looking for an institution that I could join, where I could perform charitable activities within my community. An organiziation that would not compromise my personal religious and moral values." What was wrong with joining ACTUP? What is ACTUP? I did a google search and the only thing I found was an AIDs activist project. I live in rural Missouri and I don't see how becoming a strident support for AIDs research is going to have any great impact on my local community. I'm sure it is a good cause, it just isn't my own.
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Post by whistler on Mar 20, 2005 22:33:26 GMT
[quote author=jratcliff l Learning the ritual is difficult, and if you can assign some tangible and rational 'meaning' to it that you cannot easily communicate someone, let's say like myself, I'm afraid the institution will fade into oblivion. An extinct organization of interest eventually only to historians and conspiracy theorists.{/quote] Your posts are full of valid questions for which there are many many answers. Just one answer on one Level to the question above. If you find the ritual difficult to learn ( I do also) the challenge to your self is to learn it . Not because it is Masonic but because it is a challenge to yourself The achievment of learning it well, is something you can judge for your self... That is just one small answer to one of your questions. To find a definative book to study, you will not find it. You will find certain books at certain times attract your attention and interests, even books you have rejected in an other time might light up for you.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Mar 20, 2005 22:37:22 GMT
What, people don't get AIDS in Missouri? It's a big place, and it's a disease which has become horrifyingly common everywhere, largely because people kept saying, "We don't have any of that here."
So, do you only get involved in causes that affect you personally? Doesn't that fatally limit the number of causes you can work for? A bit like the man who goes to a dating agency and says he's only interested in meeting auburn-haired women who are 5'9" and called Linda.
Does your objection to organised religion also preclude working for charities governed by a moral compassion which is religious in origin? Such as Christian Aid, The Salvation Army, Islamic Relief or Tzu Chi.
Having principles is good, but a luxury. Helping people is the work that buys the luxury.
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Post by whistler on Mar 20, 2005 23:01:50 GMT
Ruff, ,. do you think The enlightenment you describe so passionately is a once only happening, or does it happen ever again in a presons life
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 20, 2005 23:47:01 GMT
>>So, do you only get involved in causes that affect you personally?
No. However, I have made a decision to become more involved with things in my own community.
>> Doesn't that fatally limit the number of causes you can work for?
It certainly limits them, but I would hardly describe it as 'fatally'. Here in the US the Masonic lodge is a very local activity. There seem to be plenty of things we can do at the local level for our community. If nothing else, there is no shortage of widows who need tending to.
>>A bit like the man who goes to a dating agency and says he's only interested in meeting auburn-haired women who are 5'9" and called Linda.
An amusing analogy indeed.
>>Does your objection to organised religion also preclude working for charities governed by a moral compassion which is religious in origin?
Good question. No, it does not. I have contributed often to Catholic charities in my community these past years, mostly because many of our friends are Catholic and we support them. I have no objection to contributing to their charities at all, however I am looking for an organization that I can join that will accept me as I am. One that does not force me to conform to a specific dogmatic point of view.
>>Having principles is good, but a luxury. Helping people is the work that buys the luxury.
For me, it is easy to hand somebody money. That takes no great effort. My goal now is to try to do something with my words and actions and, most importantly, my time. Recently I have become more involved in the schools in our region; mentoring high school kids and giving lectures on job opportunities in my field. On Friday I volunteered for a 'career shadowing' day. It was a great experience for both myself and the young man.
Of course I don't have to be involved in Freemasonry to do any of this stuff. However, the lodge meetings I attend reinforce a strong sense of duty and moral obligation that I *should* be doing these things. I feel a sense of affirmation from being at lodge. Similar to the 'good feeling' I once got long ago when I attended organized religious services; that is at least up until the point that hypocrisy destroyed most of that feeling.
There are thousands of causes a person can join and a thousand ways you can spend your time and/or money being involved. We each have to decide for ourselves which of those causes we want to devote ourself too. You can't join every cause, so you must decide personally what you want to pursue most.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Mar 21, 2005 9:56:43 GMT
Jratcliff, Your questions are most approriate. The list of books, also of sound merit. All one can do in life is follow one's nose, with help from friends, and slowly be educated to better understanding. To ask which is the reading one should tackle always becomes subjective as, especially in this forum, there are many oppinions.
My method was to take a book that "fell into my hands" and go from there. Using what some may say was "blind faith" I continued with further reading. In similar circumstances I occasionally perform natural healing on others. I do not promote my techniques, and only have the gratitude of those assisted to confirm their appropriateness.
That was by way of example to show that when "science" is not always present, things still occur, maybe unexplainable, but never the less tangible.
I don't doubt that many require positive proof of much that is postulated in this forum, but my experience has gained me an advancement in the sum knowledge of my enlightenment. This is sufficient for me, if others gain that same response, that is good.
In essence - We must all make our own way and achieve our own conclusions. Debate assists this, and honesty in the endeavour brings its own rewards.
As with Munkholt, on another thread, we can only profer advice, in the end HE had to decide. My main advice is CHOOSE A GOOD & VARIED SELECTION OF THOSE VOLUMES, READ INTERMITENTLY, SEVERAL AT A TIME.
A good start would be "Initiation" by Elizabeth Haich.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Mar 21, 2005 9:57:49 GMT
I think that Freemasonry is an esoteric order which works with rites and symbols in order to let initiates build their inner temple. Charity is surely important, but it is not the main scope of the Craft. Charity, in esoteric sense, means to help youngsters as provided for in Old Charges: A younger Brother shall be instructed in working, to prevent spoiling the Materials for want of Judgment, and for increasing and continuing of brotherly love (1723 edition). As far as rituals are involved, I ltotally agree with a great Brother, who said:
We have now established that Freemasonry has synthesised the essence of different religions, which it teaches through its symbolism. Each of its symbols and allegories was culled from the wisdom of many faiths, and had a definite background and meaning when it was conceived. But while being handed down over centuries they have been mutated and modified gradually, till their original purpose and purport were forgotten. Freemasonry has the potential to become a great unifying force, which can to demolish all barriers, and destroy all differences that keep men apart. Brethren of all faiths can empathise with it, if only they can understand and practise its teachings. However we are more concerned with becoming expert in the punctilious observance of the ritual, than with its message. Should we continue to thus prefer form over substance, preserve the husk and discard the kernel, we shall be retaining only empty symbols and reducing Freemasonry to a mechanical rendering of the ritual. Symptoms like dwindling attendance and declining membership are already in evidence, and if left untreated much longer, could well result in the end of the order. Freemasonry is too priceless a heritage to be permitted to perish through sheer apathy. It has to be nurtured and preserved. We have all been charged with making daily advancements in Masonic knowledge; a duty seldom discharged. We owe it to the institution, and to ourselves, to delve into the meaning of the symbols and the emblems, that the true beauty of Freemasonry may once again be unfolded to us. Throwwide open the shutters of your minds and imagination. Learn to see in Masonry something more than a parochial system enjoining elementary morality, performing perfunctory and meaningless rites and serving as an agreeable accessory to social life. Look to find it in a living philosophy... realise that its secrets, which are many and valuable, are not upon the surface... that its mysteries are eternal ones that treat of the Spirit... W. L Wilmhurst - The Meaning of Masonry
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