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Post by whistler on Mar 6, 2005 21:48:22 GMT
Do we have anybody who has studied the above and would like to share.
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Mar 6, 2005 21:53:56 GMT
In the course of her many activities as an esoteric teacher and writer, Alice Bailey presented several series of regular Friday evening talks to students of the Arcane School. She spoke extemporaneously, sometimes on a scheduled topic and sometimes on whatever was occupying her thoughts at the time. Frequently this involved reading new dictated teachings from Master DK. Fortunately there was a person present to take down her words in shorthand, so almost 100 of these talks have come down to us. Some of the transcripts include informal discussions that took place during or following the talk. Dialogue participants are identified by their initials, or, if their identity is unknown, by the letter "C." We plan to add talks to this website on a regular basis, so we encourage you to bookmark this page and check it regularly. October 1, 1943
The big question in this discussion is: What is the inner purpose of this group? While leading and deepening the group's thinking on that question, AAB admits that she doesn't know. The group as a whole, using Rule One and DK's related teachings, seeks to intuit the answer. Those present, in trying to function as an invocative group, produce the most focused discussion thus far.
September 24, 1943
Basing this discussion on Rule One, AAB talks about the meaning of initiation, particularly in group formation. She also emphasizes the sacrifices involved in working in a Master's ashram. The concept of Purpose is related to the burning ground, and those present strive to put into words the purpose of the School group.
September 17, 1943
AAB and the student group begin a new cycle of talks focusing on the 14 Rules for Group Initiation that DK was dictating at the time. They use the introductory material as a basis for diagnosing and correcting the recent "slump" in the Arcane School.
Final Talk, Spring 1943
AAB starts this talk with selected readings from the first two Rules for Group Initiation. Here DK defines the "burning ground" as one of the crises of initiation in which all self-will is destroyed. Levels of service within the subjective group and in the Master's Ashram are discussed, based upon the disciple's identification with either the Soul or with the Monad. The group also considers the role of the will in precipitating the crisis of initiation and the nature of the new powers that are evoked thereby.
May 28, 1943
This talk begins with a discussion of the four lines of spiritual teaching that were emphasized through the centuries until 1875. Modern disciples are assumed to have mastered them, and now "new knowledge must supercede the old," according to DK. AAB and the group of students seek to determine what that new knowledge is.
May 21, 1943
This discussion centers on a statement by the Tibetan that the revelation given to the initiate is factual and leads to, among other things, new powers and new modes and fields of service. What are they, exactly? AAB and the attending students utilize the group mind and come up with seven new powers. The evening concludes with a lively discussion about the imminent new modes and fields of service.
May 14, 1943
This meeting served as a group response/discussion on the previous Friday's reading by AAB of the Tibetan's new article, "The New World Religion."
May 7, 1943
AAB reads a new 17-page article by the Tibetan entitled "The New World Religion." This constitutes the first in-depth presentation on this important Hierarchical initiative.
April 30, 1943
AAB talks extensively of her early life and how she came to work with the Masters. In the process she illustrates what contact with the Masters means and how to distinguish between the status of accepted disciple and that of world disciple.
April 23, 1943
What are the requirements for initiation and how do we know when it has occurred? AAB and the group of students probe the psychological and spiritual issues surrounding this mysterious and little-known phenomenon, which is also a major factor in evolution.
April 9, 1943
The nature of the aura; knowing the Masters through their sphere of influence rather than only in theory; defining and experiencing higher consciousness; commitment to discipleship work; the effect disciples and Masters have upon their immediate environment.
April 2, 1943
The use of group energies for protection and for service to humanity during the Wesak and Goodwill Festivals; how the group can cooperate with the Hierarchy and meet world need at this crucial time; how focusing on technique limits our power to invoke and evoke.
March 26, 1943
The higher Will; the meaning of sacrifice; true creativity and the Antahkarana; correspondence of Shamballa-humanity to Monad-personality.
March 19, 1943
Methods of aligning with the Masters.
March 12, 1943
Discipleship, initiation and relationship with the Masters.
March 5, 1943
Group fusion, the distinction between the Plan and the Purpose, requirements for membership in a Master's ashram, becoming invocative of the intuition.
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Post by whistler on Mar 6, 2005 22:14:32 GMT
Wow Staffs, I didn't know you had studied so hard... She and DK have a big influence in the New AUM Freemasonry -
re the May 21st Lecture - can you see that in a Masonic Context?
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Mar 7, 2005 4:49:05 GMT
Remember also that Foster Bailey, her husband, was a male craft Mason, and wrote a book- "The Spirit Of Masonry".
AUM of course is the resurrected modern result of her earlier establishing her own Masonic Organisation. Whether she did not like LDH, because of its association with Theosophy I do not know.
From the odd lecture I've heard about AUM, its members use a lot of "Baily Speak" in their interpretations.
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Post by a on Mar 7, 2005 7:23:34 GMT
I first read of Alice Bailey in Robert Temples Sirius Mystery in his appendix on freemasonry. But I will confess to thinking at the time that this Alice Baily stuff was a bit well airey fairey.
However I was wrong. Or not ready at that time.
As you know Russell introduced me to Alice bailey when he recommended "Initiation Solar and Human" to me.
Apart from this book being a facinating read, I will confess that I can relate to it in a very practical sense. Clearly I can't tell you whether or not I have been through any solar initiations, but I can tell you that from what is said in the book, I would be in no way be suprised if I have. The book also helps put the Freeemasonic initiations that you have all been through into a sharper perspective, as you may realise once you have read the book.
As I felt so attuned with this book I have now read a couple more and am currently partial way through another. I expect that I will, intime, read them all, several times. I have also as you know recently been guided to Foster Baileys book, The Spirit of Freemasonry, which I started a thread on.
I find some of the Alice Bailey books to be easy reads and others very difficult in places, but then again some of the concepts make complete sense to me from my experiences, and others currently fly over my head. Well not so much over my head, but they are the first timethat I have been introduced to them, and they give me an awful lot to think about.
Personally I would put them on a suggested reading list for any Freemason who has done some reasonable internal work, though club Masons I would imagine may well find it all well like a fairy story. And you will find Freemasonry specifically mentioned a fair bit in the books.
Just be careful which book you start with. Perhaps Whistler or Russell could advise here? (And the books are inexpensive £8-15 sterling, with the Foster Bailey one I mentioned only £6.)
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Mar 7, 2005 8:22:48 GMT
Slightly off topic, but another good set of masonic books by a non male mason is "New Age Bible Interpretation" by Corinne Heline. - 7 volumes in all!
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jmd
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Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Mar 26, 2005 3:25:42 GMT
Hubert, I do not understand the comment you made above ('Whether she did not like LDH, because of its association with Theosophy').
Alice Bailey became general secretary of the TS, so the mild overlap that there was between LDH and Theosophy would not have been of concern, I would have thought (except perhaps for a lack of Theosophical materials in LDH).
But of course this takes it away from the questions in the opening of the thread.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Mar 26, 2005 4:28:30 GMT
jmd, Yes, Alice Bailey was a Theosophist originally, but then formed her own group when there was disagreement about her making public, info from the Esoteric Group within the TS. I am not a member of the ES grouping, tho' I am a general TS member. The ES is very secretive about what they do, but I gather it has a lot to do with the "Ascended Masters" - DK, KH, etc. ( Edmond Harold also writes books about them tho' not a TS member).
Weather this should be a thread of it's own I'm uncertain, as the info is interrelated, and would confuse those outside the general scope of AB, Masters, TS, CoM.
It does however add to the "historical" record of the formations of these organisations, and irrespective of the conflicts, shows how abundant the energy of the Women involved was in establishing MIXED freemasonry.
It was this conflict that suggests to me why she may have formed her own MASONIC organisation, as many prominent early Theosophists were instumental in forming the CoMasonic (LDH) group. (India having formerly the largest membership after France & Belgium).
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jmd
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Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Mar 26, 2005 4:52:31 GMT
I can agree that a number of Theosophists were instrumental in spreading LDH to our parts of the world and to India, but simply cannot agree that they were instrumental in forming LDH.
Of course, the Besant-Leadbeater modified ritual can also be viewed as having 'formed' LDH, but, again, to this I would have to simply agree to disagree on semantics.
The Esoteric Section of the TS, that possibly also arose for various reasons, including a perceived need to have a more 'closed' group that could take various considerations further, appears to me to be independent of LDH - except perhaps in the more general sense that the altered ritual may have been discussed and commented on within the ES (an example of this alteration is the inclusion of Sociology in the second degree, rather than simply mentioning the seven liberal arts and sciences, that historically form part of the classical Mediaeval education).
Traditionally, the LDH is quite distinct and independent of the TS, though each, then as now (as too UGLV, eg.), have members that are members of the other. Unlike the Liberal Catholic Church, that required of its Bishops to be ES members of the TS, this has never been the case for the LDH, and, of course, no TS (and ipso facto no ES) member was part of the Lodge that formed what eventually became LDH.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Mar 26, 2005 5:25:50 GMT
jmd, I'm interested in your comment about the Liberal Catholic Church & ES membership being a requisite for becoming a Bishop. I have never been aware of such, and know of several bishops who are neither ES or TS members. My own twin brother is a priest in the LCC, and at one time was considered as a Bishop, but was never told he had to join the ES.
It would me most un PC for such a requirement as ES members must be vegitarian, teetotal, non smokers, (pot of tobacco), and generally abstain from sexual activity.
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jmd
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Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Mar 26, 2005 5:37:30 GMT
I used the past tense (though I admit that I did not clearly make the point), from a discussion I once had with a LCC Bishop. He was simultaneously clear that this is not any longer the case, and that even membership to the TS is not required - my point was more that though one can argue for a very close connection between the LCC and the TS in the early days, this is not the case for the LDH.
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Post by plewis66 on Apr 1, 2005 18:00:38 GMT
I'd be interested to know, if anyone is at lberty to say, how much of the esoteric teachings in LDH originate in Theosophy?
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Apr 2, 2005 1:35:39 GMT
From my involvement in CoMasonry, both LDH and the Eastern Order of International CoFreemasonry, I am comfortable that they are NOT an offshoot of theosophy.
It's membership (CoM), generally tends towards the esoteric values, and because a goodly number of "Commonwealth" members had backgrounds in various other spiritual organisations this facilitated the acceptance of the esoteric.
There are in fact many Brn. who have not belonged to the TS or AB groups, but still find our (CoM) direction of great assistance.
I'm mainly aware of the "mind set " of those who join our "mixed" variety of the Craft workings - first they beleive in full equality of sexes, races, social standings, secondly they are more open to spiritual ceremonial.
The "other" organisations were merely a backing to their interest in freemasonry. Some of the differences in our ritual thus comes as natural to such members. When we have had Male Craft visitors, they have always been impressed at our involvement of Odes (singing) and nature spirits in our workings.
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Post by plewis66 on Apr 2, 2005 10:12:22 GMT
MAny thanks, Hubert, for this replay and the other.
I'm quite pleased about that, I must say. Whilst I respect the TS system and its members, from what I know of it, it's not for me.
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Post by a on Apr 8, 2005 9:32:22 GMT
I am continuing to plow through these books, some pages turn with great ease others have me reflecting for days on end.
What I can say with some confidence is that there is a great deal of truth and wisdom in the pages, though I doubt that I would have appreciated this had I read them even just a few years ago. These are, I think, books that you do have to have reached a certain stage on your own journey to appreciate properly. But they really are quite wonderful. And I can tell you with certainty, (from the bits that reflect my experience) they are accurate.
Anyway the reason for this post, Leo, I have just started to read "Esoteric Astrology" and I am only a few pages in. Your post on the animal thread made me think that you may enjoy reading this book, and even if it is too heavy for you just now it will I think help you, if not today, then perhaps tomorrow, as you clearly have an interest in such things. The few pages that I have read so far have helped me enormously. I assume of course that you have not already read it.
Also bear in mind my comments from my post above, these books are not, on the whole, easy reads. Especially I guess if you can't relate practically to some of what is said. But the term "Freemasonry" is repeated and repeated and repeated.
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