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Post by Yoki on Mar 31, 2005 2:52:38 GMT
In an other place not far away and at a time not long ago, the subject of ghosts in Masonic lodges was discussed. I read through the thread and meant to contribute but never got around to it,so now I am resurrecting the subject or something similar. Our Masonic temple is housed in the Christchurch Theosophical building and by New Zealand standards is quite old. I imagine that over the years with the help of the resident Liberal Catholic Church and the Co Masonic lodge the revivor of power in the building has grown, so its not surprising that odd things happen. For me they have been little things like whispering while I sit and wait for what ever ceremony is to take place that night .One night while I stood and waited in the outer room a shut door violently shook, I thought earthquake and headed for a door frame, someone else said its the wind .It wasn't a earthquake and how the wind could do that in a building shut of to the outer world defies me. Others have heard footsteps and quite except that the paranormal is at foot. We have a clairvoyant entered apprentice who reports Masonic participation from what could be deceased members, the last time he reported a William stood behind the Masters chair .Ok easy to give out a name, but I have since learned that a earlier brother was indeed called William. Yes I really think our lodge is hunted and even though I don't see them I certainly can feel their presence.
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Post by whistler on Mar 31, 2005 5:25:06 GMT
Hi Yoki, Everything you mention is possible and not uncommon, If William is not being a pest and not bothering anybody let him be. If he starts to become a pest it is a sign that he really should be moved on, and assisted to rise to a higher level.and I am sure you can find somebody in Christchurch can do this for you. - The Sceptics will tell you that there are millions of Williams - If you want to play a little with him and done with the correct attitude it will not do any harm ask a Trance medium along, see what they pick up (Don't tell the medium beforehand) see if "William" will give his name - If he cooperates you may find a lot of reasons why he is hanging around the lodge. In fact just typing this I can tell you that he was a smart dresser but as he got older he became a little tatty and that distressed him. oops could go on but will stop here HGW
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Post by Proton on Apr 22, 2005 23:51:07 GMT
Hi Yoki, I do agree with Whistlers comments. What you have is a lost soul or wandering spirit that is still earth bound. Sometimes they can be mischevious, othertimes not. It is possible to be aware of their presence in a Lodge room particularly if it is a cold room, and you can detect or feel the vibrations. Some people are more sensitive and atuned to this than others are. The medium will be of great assistance in not only contacting William, but also telling him to go to the Light. This is a spirit saying that it is time to journey to the light (heaven etc) as your earthbound time is over. A friend of mine who lived in an old converted house had a presence in his upstairs room. The room we used to hold LOIs in and it was not a warm friendly room inspite of the heating being on full blast! Over the years the couple had tried for a family but were unsuccessful. They had commented that when working in the room they felt a presence and his wife would never go in the room alone, and never with the door shut. The presence would often turn a light switch on in the room! Once when I was in the room I closed the door and sat down. I said to the presence can I help you? Then I felt some thing move across the room and was infront of me. They researched the previous owners and found it to be an elderly widow, who had gone blind in the room and subsequently died there in that room in the house. A spiritualist was called in and assisted in telling the presence to go to the light. Later the room was warmer and friendlier, and she later had two boys. Proton
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Apr 25, 2005 17:38:29 GMT
What is the frequency of patron ghosts? I mean, how common is it for a lodge to have a resident spook, a genius loci, an embodiment of (no pun intended) the lodge's team spirit?
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Post by whistler on Apr 25, 2005 19:07:34 GMT
What is the frequency of patron ghosts? I mean, how common is it for a lodge to have a resident spook, a genius loci, an embodiment of (no pun intended) the lodge's team spirit? The entity who inhabits, a lodge room - wouldn't be an embodiment of the lodge's team spirit- It would be somebody for whom Lodge was very important, and when they passed over for some reason, didn't know they had died and spent their time in the lodge where they felt they belonged, they may stay in the lodge for one or a hundred or more years, time has no meaning in spirit. there they will stay until something or somebody comes along and directs them to the light. So how many Lodges have a resident spook? who knows I suspect it is quite common, but then lodge rooms are not the only places that are homes to spooks.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Apr 25, 2005 21:15:12 GMT
What I mean is, you will be familiar with the technique of psychically investing a place or object with a localised astral body formed of the concentrated intention of the operator. There is a technical name for these spectral guardians, but for the life of me I can't recall what. Isn't it theoretically possible to invest a place such as a Masonic lodge with a solidification of ritual intention, perhaps in the form of the wounded Hiram Abiff?
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Post by hollandr on Apr 25, 2005 22:09:44 GMT
What I mean is, you will be familiar with the technique of psychically investing a place or object with a localised astral body formed of the concentrated intention of the operator. There is a technical name for these spectral guardians, but for the life of me I can't recall what. Isn't it theoretically possible to invest a place such as a Masonic lodge with a solidification of ritual intention, perhaps in the form of the wounded Hiram Abiff? Ruff Perhaps you mean an Egregor - entity formed from the pooled substance of the group. (How does the pooled substance become intelligent??) Or perhaps you mean the Gestalt - parallel to the above, but not necessarily as focussed. The Genius Loci may form from an egregor but may also be derived from nature spirit or angelic kingdoms. If there is a higher sponsor (e.g. TGAOTU) then the lower entity may be programmed or inspired by a higher intelligence. Several layers are possible. At this point, with a real situation, the Masonic scientist has opportunity to identify some of the current sponsors of Masonry or at least the lodge in question Cheers Russell
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Post by whistler on Apr 25, 2005 22:14:19 GMT
What I mean is, you will be familiar with the technique of psychically investing a place or object with a localised astral body formed of the concentrated intention of the operator. There is a technical name for these spectral guardians, but for the life of me I can't recall what. Isn't it theoretically possible to invest a place such as a Masonic lodge with a solidification of ritual intention, perhaps in the form of the wounded Hiram Abiff? Sorry Ruff I am not at all familiar, but just because I don't know about it doesn't mean it is not possible.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Apr 25, 2005 22:50:53 GMT
Russell almost had it: the word is egregore, pronounced, "Ee, Gregory!". Thanks, Russell, I couldn't have remembered it without you.
Yes, that's what I meant. Obviously, conscious psychic activity would be needed for any solid, personified accretion to develop; but the "group mind" type of egregore could, I imagine, take hold without anyone actually meaning to. A spirit of environmental (i.e., elemental) origin might be more opportunistic, however, especially with all that unattached fear and domination and power tripping going around in any less-than-happily-balanced Lodge.
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Post by hollandr on Apr 26, 2005 2:48:13 GMT
Russell almost had it: the word is egregore, pronounced, "Ee, Gregory!". Thanks, Russell, I couldn't have remembered it without you. Yes, that's what I meant. Obviously, conscious psychic activity would be needed for any solid, personified accretion to develop; but the "group mind" type of egregore could, I imagine, take hold without anyone actually meaning to. A spirit of environmental (i.e., elemental) origin might be more opportunistic, however, especially with all that unattached fear and domination and power tripping going around in any less-than-happily-balanced Lodge. I used to live in a community and it had an egregore plus some higher entities. The egregore used to burn out susceptible people by running them off their feet and separating them from their assets. It was feeding itself and the new members were its food. Members who connected at a higher levels, beyond the egregore did not have that problem Cheers Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Apr 26, 2005 6:44:15 GMT
And they tell us monsters don't really exist. But they do: and there's nothing they have on that plane that we don't have on this one.
So I was wondering, is there any precedent for building an egregore to be a kind of watchdog against other unwanted influences? Something to appeal to when the shadows encroach and the nightmares crowd around? A monster-fighting monster I mean.
I know, in all matters of doubt, we ought to place our trust in God. But, you know, when the spectre of fear comes calling, I know I'd feel safer trusting in dog.
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Post by hollandr on Apr 26, 2005 8:35:58 GMT
So I was wondering, is there any precedent for building an egregore to be a kind of watchdog against other unwanted influences? Something to appeal to when the shadows encroach and the nightmares crowd around? A monster-fighting monster I mean. I know, in all matters of doubt, we ought to place our trust in God. But, you know, when the spectre of fear comes calling, I know I'd feel safer trusting in dog. Ruff Quite right. Not all who cry "lord, lord" shall be saved. In the lodge working, the opening is very important so that the tyling is on the inner as well as the outer. But who knows that or how to do it? And both the outer and inner guards are armed with iron blades to deal with astral entities. But who knows that and who is trained? And we are instructed to retire from the lodge if there is a brother with whom we are at difference. And this is because the negativity in the lodge makes a great hole in the protection that was supposedly established by the opening of the lodge. The best defence in the first instance is a harmonious lodge protected by elder brethren who are sensitive to the astral. And it does no harm to invoke a blessing for TGAOTU that our work be conducted in harmony and closed in peace. More technically it is quite possible to build an egregore and the easiest way to do it is to accumulate substance for it on the appropriate subplanes (rungs of Jacob's ladder) and to enliven in using substance from 2.4 (4th subplane of adi) in geometric form with proper intent. I once did that at Iona and some people that I had never met (spoken on the phone) rang the community on the other side of Scotland and complained that I would not let them on the island - via the public ferry. Quite right. And about midnight the angel of Iona complained that the entity was stopping other people too so I took it down. Cheers Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Apr 26, 2005 10:47:06 GMT
Russell, assuming for a moment that all you are saying is true for the sake of the argument, then this disturbs me somewhat.
In one of your Co-Masonic Lodges if supernatural entities are drawn there by the activities, layout, impedimenta, etc, then I assume from what you say that there are Brethren present who are skilled and gifted enough to deflect or block any malign spirits, elementals etc. However what would happen in an UGLE Craft Lodge. It is my experience that the majority of Brethren there would be far more mundane, even "Social Clubbers" in some cases and not in the slighest interested in the Esoteric and quite probably very sceptical about its very existance. Would they be protected somehow against any evil force which might break through or would Supernatural Entities have no more interest in such events than they would in a Whist Drive, a Dinner Dance or a Sunday Golf Competition?
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Post by hollandr on Apr 26, 2005 11:27:04 GMT
>In one of your Co-Masonic Lodges if supernatural entities are drawn there by the activities, layout, impedimenta, etc, then I assume from what you say that there are Brethren present who are skilled and gifted enough to deflect or block any malign spirits, elementals etc.
Well that was where I was instructed by a little old lady. But I do not think that many knew what she did.
>However what would happen in an UGLE Craft Lodge?
Well there perhaps we may protected by ineffectiveness. After all if no energy moves who will come for a feed?
As it happens not even very many humans.
But to be more serious, it is a potential problem. However, I have only seen dark churches, not dark lodges.
I recall a meditation I was leading, rather slowly up Jacob's ladder as it happened. And I suddenly speeded up. A woman in the group said later that a nasty entity was approaching the group and then I speeded up and we rose above it.
Sometime later I had an email from across the Pacific and was told there that our group had been "whisked away" from trouble.
So it is an issue but it may be that only functional lodges attract problems.
It certainly helps to have an active sponsor to keep an eye on proceedings.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by bevan on Apr 26, 2005 17:04:59 GMT
So I was wondering, is there any precedent for building an egregore to be a kind of watchdog against other unwanted influences? Something to appeal to when the shadows encroach and the nightmares crowd around? A monster-fighting monster I mean.Hmm Ruff... Sounds like you're after a more general purpose servitor, rather than a specific egregore. The 'Egregore' meme is typically a magickal entity that functions under its own will, although unique from deity in that it is explicitly a human creation, rather than implied. Whilst the 'Servitor' meme typically takes the role of servant to its master, the egregor is designed to fulfill a certain goal. If the servitor gains enough power it can become an egregore, independent from the will of its creator, much like the 'Tulpa' meme, which is a western interpretation of a Bon concept. See www.philhine.org.uk/writings/sp_genpurpose.html for general purpose servitor recipes.
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Post by whistler on Apr 26, 2005 19:37:18 GMT
Russell, assuming for a moment that all you are saying is true for the sake of the argument, then this disturbs me somewhat. In one of your Co-Masonic Lodges if supernatural entities are drawn there by the activities, layout, impedimenta, etc, then I assume from what you say that there are Brethren present who are skilled and gifted enough to deflect or block any malign spirits, elementals etc. However what would happen in an UGLE Craft Lodge. It is my experience that the majority of Brethren there would be far more mundane, even "Social Clubbers" in some cases and not in the slighest interested in the Esoteric and quite probably very sceptical about its very existance. Would they be protected somehow against any evil force which might break through or would Supernatural Entities have no more interest in such events than they would in a Whist Drive, a Dinner Dance or a Sunday Golf Competition? This is getting a little more exotic than I am comfortable with. All lodges attract entities, yes elementals can be mischeivous, but only in the way a child might be, the elemetals of fire the most common, candles going out sort of thing.. The nature of Masonic rituals attract the appropriate entities, yes even UGLE Lodges. Many Lodge members will totally unaware of such things. Taylorman, I am certain that when you sit for a moment in a Lodge, you will notice a different feeling, then you do when you sit in your lounge at home. Of the things Russell is currently talking about, I do not have any experience. Of Nasty entities, with many years experience in house and building clearing, I have only discovered two, which were in very specific situations, and I can't ever imagine such beings able to have any influence in a Lodge Ceremony. The Hierarchy would not allow it With your whist Drive, dinner dance, or Golf match, you could well expect the odd entity to join in without anybody on the earth plane knowing. The important thing always to remember, the "World of Spirit" is very very simple and uncomplicated
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Post by hollandr on Apr 26, 2005 22:29:06 GMT
>See www.philhine.org.uk/writings/sp_genpurpose.html for general purpose servitor recipes. Bevan I had a look at this. I would be a bit wary of the technique because it does not give tight control of the subplane material being provided for the entity. This can allow the entity to have lower subplane substance that supports vices (viciousness) rather than virtues. And the technique allows some intelligence to appear in the substance without the group constructing or inspecting the intelligence. And while that group may have had some unpleasant aspirations for their entity, they are left hoping (intending) that no other entity is able to hijack the entity and turn it against them. The effect of their intent of course is badly undermined if they maintain any negative intentions. Negative intentions can be quite subtle. For example, continuing to live or work where we know we should not makes big holes in our protection. Better to construct an entity with good will and be more scientific with the construction. Cheers Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Apr 27, 2005 2:14:33 GMT
A most interesting discussion - I believe this is Esoteric Masonry par excellence. Russell, Hugely illuminating comments on an already literally fascinating subject. As (ahem ) unsympathetic as I may have been to your extraterrestrial origin theory of Masonry, here there's no doubt in my mind that you do certainly know your onions. bevan, As one would expect, an eminently practical ritual from the Chaoist school of thaumaturgy. Great care must of course be exercised that Chaos, the wellspring of its power, be not also its result I haven't yet read Carroll's Liber Kaos, although his Liber Null and its companion Psychonaut are thought-provoking manifestoes in their own right, challenging in ways which impact upon all aspects of the Magical student's life. whistler, I appreciate your words of experience, and hope to find confirmation of them in all my Masonic and philosophical undertakings.
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Post by hollandr on Apr 27, 2005 4:09:21 GMT
A most interesting discussion - I believe this is Esoteric Masonry par excellence. Russell, Hugely illuminating comments on an already literally fascinating subject. As (ahem ) unsympathetic as I may have been to your extraterrestrial origin theory of Masonry, here there's no doubt in my mind that you do certainly know your onions. . Ruff Kind of you to say so. Cheers Russell
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Post by hollandr on Apr 27, 2005 6:01:42 GMT
As I indicated in another thread, it is possible and relatively common to have dark entities intervene with humans:
- to bend the humans to other agendas - to feed off the humans - to disable the lightworker humans for millennia.
Disablement produces depression and often low physical energy.
A common disabling device is an "etheric" black box connected either to the base of the spine or the back of the head.
If that is easy to visualise and you have either of the above symptoms, you may want to investigate further.
Cheers
Russell
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