giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on May 5, 2005 12:34:16 GMT
Freemasonry is said to be a secret society. False. Only people in bad faith can charge us to be secret, since Freemasonry provincial sieges are shown in the telephone book. To the contrary, Freemasonry may be a society which has secrets, like any other entity, such as the company's board or the Coca-Cola, whose recipe is stilll secret. Quite different from the common one is the notion of the initiate secret. Secret, from latin "se-cernerne" (to separate from oneself) is the result of an intimate research which is to be put aside, in a safe box, away from indiscrete eyes: our inner. Bro. Casanova, the famous adventurer, said that it's useless to reveal this secret even to the closest Brethren: if they are not able to catch it by themselves, they will never understand this deep but elementary truth.
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Post by hollandr on May 7, 2005 7:31:32 GMT
Giovanni
The GL position is that the only secrets in Masonry are the signs, grips and tokens (all well published).
But I find that not an obvious statement in a Masonry with many mansions, not all in the public domain.
Blavatsky said (c 1900) that no lodges still had the secrets of Masonry. But I note she did not say that no Masons had the secrets.
Perhaps I will look further.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on May 7, 2005 9:05:43 GMT
I would agree that we are NOT a Secret Society, after all there are a multitude of books freely available on Freemasonry, one can buy the Ritual Books, Regalia etc openly not only via a Lodge, there are Open Days at Masonic Temples and daily tours open to all of Freemason's Hall in London. Websites such as this abound on the Internet.
Rather we are a "Society with Secrets". The Official Grand Lodge explanation is a bit twee and the oft quoted comparison of a Lodge to a Golf Club etc is a bit worn out. Our "secrets" are not as pedestrian as their Annual Accounts and Minutes etc. Neither are the "Signs, Tokens and Words" all that "secret" as these can be found in "Darkness Visible " and other such books and on the Internet. Brethren such as myself will NOT disclose them but in my case that is only because I have sworn an Oath not to and I don't lightly break an Oath, it doesn't actually bother me at all if someone reads them in a book or downloads them off the Web.
To me the "Secrets" are far far deeper than that and differ from man to man. Some Freemasons will never discover them, some don't even want to. To me it is discovery of oneself and one's relationship to one's Fellow Man, to God and the Universe. As they say in Mark "... and on this Stone a new name written, a name unknown to all but he who receiveth it"
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 9, 2005 7:32:44 GMT
To me the "Secrets" are far far deeper than that and differ from man to man. Some Freemasons will never discover them, some don't even want to. To me it is discovery of oneself and one's relationship to one's Fellow Man, to God and the Universe. As they say in Mark "... and on this Stone a new name written, a name unknown to all but he who receiveth it" A very meaningful thought. "Name", from sanskrit "nama" = essence. A new name is needed, since a new essence is born.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on May 11, 2005 8:09:39 GMT
"Name" does not come from Sanksrit: rather, both share a common ancestor, the implied Indo-European tongue.
A rather more interesting derivation might be Latin nomen (family name) and numen (spirit; presence).
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 11, 2005 8:34:08 GMT
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Post by jratcliff on May 11, 2005 15:22:35 GMT
Hmmm...are we being straight with ourselves here?
We are a secret society in a great many ways. Sure, it is a fact that a lodge exists and many of its activites in the community are quite public.
However, the lodge meeting itself is very secret. Only a mason may participate and a tiler with a drawn sword guards the outer door.
We swear an oath to keep everything in lodge a secret. And, my main point, is that we swear an oath to keep all of the secrets of our lodge brothers.
Finally, even though the ritual is well published, nevertheless we each swear an oath to 'never reveal' these secrets. Even though some may rationalize that the only part of ritual which is secret are grips and passwords, that is certainly not the phrasing of the oath we took.
So, let us be honest. We have each sworn oaths of secrecy and our lodge meetings are held sancrosant.
Just because our pancake breakfast fundraiser might be in the local paper is not to say we are not obligated to maintain the secrets we swore an oath to.
Bro. John
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Post by hollandr on May 11, 2005 22:19:26 GMT
John
In my view the secrets of Masonry are not the signs, grips and tokens.
The secrets are concealed in the ritual:
- why is the lodge blue? - why is the RWM on 3 steps? - what is the blazing star? - why is the mosaic pavement tiled - why do the deacons stand either side of the candidate for the obligation?
When we understand these things we may be able to wield higher energies directly.
Hence the need for the practice of secrecy. So that if we do discover any of the mysteries of nature and science (why does science have mysteries?) then we are practiced in silence before the unworthy.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by a on May 12, 2005 6:20:55 GMT
Hence the need for the practice of secrecy. So that if we do discover any of the mysteries of nature and science (why does science have mysteries?) then we are practiced in silence before the unworthy. Russell I rarely disagree with you, but here I must. 1. Why should one person be less worthy than another? One may be less evolved/their ashlar being more rough than another, but ultimately we are all the same. 2. In any case, when it comes to words, either written or spoken, an interesting thing happens. Words by their very nature are very powerful instruments. Instruments which people can see different things in, and take different things out of, depending on their own personal level of evolution. If you are not ready to understand, then you are simply not ready, and if you are you are. Hence keeping secrets is a bit of a fools illusion. 3. But, to offer some balance, people are fragile creatuires and can react unexpectedly and bizarrely, as they speed search for their comfort zone when they are presented with something that makes them feel insecure. So I can see that there is a responsibility perspective to ensuring that people only get knowledge when they are ready for it. But in most cases it will simply go unrecognised due to our built in safety valves. 4. But as ultimately all real knowledge comes from within, it will be given when a person is ready anyway. 5. Perhaps at this specific point in our evolution, the secrets do need to be explained as widely as possible, so that more can use the words as a tool to help them perform internal work and knock at their own door, so that more can find what they seek? 6. The esoteric societies could, if they chose to, find that they become illuminating stars who gain immense global respect and a new lease fo life, if they can find a way to recognises the changes in our world (which I am sure they do) and grasp the consequent opportunities taht present themselves. Which for some may take a lot of inner courage. 7. The interesting thing is that with regard to some issues, the Vatican appears (from reports that I have read about the words/work of some Cardinals etc) to be more progressive in terms of educating the world than the esoteric societies. 8. The time has come for all to be revealed. And indeed has been becoming revealed for quite some time now. So now is the time for the societies to put the theory into practice. Those that do will flourish, and those who engulfed by their own darkness will I suspect sideline themselves. And if none can find the courage to lead, then humanity will do it without them. Why? For a way will always be found. Hopefully this time around the way will not involve a major resetting of the planet, whetehr through flood or fire or whatever.
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Post by taylorsman on May 12, 2005 7:19:06 GMT
7. The interesting thing is that with regard to some issues, the Vatican appears (from reports that I have read about the words/work of some Cardinals etc) to be more progressive in terms of educating the world than the esoteric societies. . I find this a bit hard to swallow Stewart. Yes there are Teaching Orders of Priests, Monks, and Nuns. I can think of the Jesuits, the Marists, the Franciscans, and of course various Missionary Orders who spread education in its general sense. However the Roman Catholic Church has been instrumental down through the ages in suppressing knowledge, being the opponent of science, of peddling its own line, however absurd, on many matters. As one commentator put it rather eloquently, there is "Truth", and there is "Catholic Truth", in an allusion to the publishing and propaganda organisation that produces pamphlets sold in RC Churches on various issues from their perspective, including some less than favourable ones about Freemasonry. We are NOT a teaching Order, but do hold knowledge which is there for those who seek and can understand it and are prepared to seek it.
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on May 12, 2005 7:24:47 GMT
I would not be suprised if Stewart knows a few Cardinals and may well have a few Contacts inside the vatican. ;D
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Post by taylorsman on May 12, 2005 7:33:17 GMT
Now there's an idea. His Emminence Stewart Edwards, Cardinal Archbishop of Didcot. Has a ring to it, and he would cut a dash in a Scarlet Cassock and one of those big red hats.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 12, 2005 8:09:08 GMT
I think that these words of Bachofen may help us all :
It is in the graves that the symbol has been created…<br>Thoughts, feelings, dumb prayers Evoked by the aspect of the tomb Could not be expressed by words; Just the symbol, because of its immutable silence, Can enable one feel them.
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Post by a on May 12, 2005 8:18:46 GMT
That is a bit of a downward progression Taylorsman, a little while ago you were suggesting that I should be the next Pope.
Fortunately I have no aspirations to such positions. I am but a simple man, on a journey through life.
As soon as you take a position of power you could get tied up with all sorts of politics and it can, I would imagine, be easy to get so tied up with the politics that you then forget your purpose and start backpeddling. What a price to pay for power. Especially when real power is to be found within.
Also as you know I am no huge fan of some of the things the Catholic Church has done through the years, but it does do a lot of good in our world. And the last Pope did do a lot of bridge building work and making appolgies for past actions. In someways I hope that the Church can grasp some of the cutting edge work that is being done by some of its members and use it for the benefit of humanity. It could also find a new lease of life if it choses to.
Our world really has, at this precise moment in time, a window of opportunity for a win-win scenario, but it will become loose-loose when the window closes.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 12, 2005 9:49:53 GMT
5. Perhaps at this specific point in our evolution, the secrets do need to be explained as widely as possible, so that more can use the words as a tool to help them perform internal work and knock at their own door, so that more can find what they seek? IMO a secret cannot be widely explained, since its intrpretation is different even within the interpreter. The meaning of the square & compasses that I gave 20 years ago, when I was intiated, is different from the actual one. I think that man can give stimuli, as we are doing at the present; the level of understing depends however on the quantum of spirituality is attained by the interpreter.
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Post by taylorsman on May 12, 2005 10:25:03 GMT
Well, Stewart, to be Pope you first need to be a Cardinal, so it's a step in the right direction!
Now on a more serious note. Without Power, all the great ideas in the World are but dreams. There are hoards of sad men living and dying in obscurity who have had brilliant ideas but lacked the Power to implement them, be these Inventions, Social-Economic or Political Policies etc. The recent Election showed that although 3 men DID win as Individuals , Peter Law, George Galloway and Dr Taylor in Wyre Forest, the rest of the MPs were elected on a Party Ticket and thus benefited from the Power of their party. Take the man, Mr Keys, who stood against Blair in Sedgefield a week ago. He got just over 4000 votes and a made a speech asking Blair to apologise for the death of soldiers such as his son, who had been killed in the illegal war in Iraq. Very moving and dignified but he did not and will NOT get such an apology from Blair, he has had his "15 minutes of fame" and will soon be forgotten. Blair is still PM, our Troops are still in Iraq and are likely to remain there as long as the US President wants them to be. Blair has the power and has shown by his recent actions in the week since the election that he intends to use it. He has 5 more years if he wishes, though I think he will cut and run after 2. To some people the Greens have some good ideas but not a single one of them was elected. They have no power in our Political System at Westminster where the REAL Power lies, whatever seats they may hold in Local Councils such as Brighton or in the Assemblies. In effect they are Impotent and if the Government wishes to build some more Motorways, a new Runway and Terminal at Heathrow, Gatwick or elsewhere, or renew our ageing Nuclear Power Stations it will do so and they will be Powerless to stop it.
There are tons of burnt out Don Quixotes dreaming their impossible dreams and a few successful Politicians, Business men, Opinion Formers etc, walking the talk and bringing their ideas to fruition because they have the Power to do so.
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Post by a on May 12, 2005 11:03:43 GMT
Taylorsman
I can only repeat what I said above. Real power is to be found within. It is an internal thing.
Those who do have external power in our world are I think in a very difficult position. On the one hand yes they can do as they like, but on the other there is the law of karma, which I would suggest is very real. Add to this the insecurity of the human race, and the externals over which politicians have no control, ranging from the environment, space, and even corporations, and their lot is not an easy one.
And for all of the issues surrounding our Governmental system, it has to be said that we live in one of the most democratic, safest, educated, freeist countries in the world. I personally think that our powers that be have on balance done a fairly good job.
Taylorsman, whether you realise it or not, you as a lone individual, have enormous power if you care to find it. And should you come to understand this you may also realise the enormous responsibility that comes attached with it.
Though personally I dislike the term power. But I accept that many devote their whole lives to its acquisition.
Giovanni
Your points are well made, and your brothers could do well to heed them.
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Post by taylorsman on May 12, 2005 11:43:57 GMT
"....whether you realise it or not, you as a lone individual, have enormous power if you care to find it"
Stewart, you could have fooled me! Let's take stock. I am an ordinary employee in a big multinational company. If I left tomorrow it would not make a lot of difference to them. A bit of short term inconvenience to the other blokes in my little section but to Management? -not a lot, I would soon be replaced.
Politically, I am just an Ordinary Elector in a relatively safe seat. My one vote last week didn't make a lot of difference as the successful MP had a majority of 4682 even with a 5% swing against his party. Economically I earn a fairly average wage, I am not a big spender so I don't command a lot there either, I am divorced, no kids, no dependents. I live in a modest little one bedroom flat in central Reading, so I'm no big Property Owner. I don't have a Title, am not in Elected Office, and let me tell you that is no great shakes either , your ordinary Local Councillor is but "Lobby Fodder" only the Chairmen of Commitees and the Leader of the Council pull the strings.
So I would love to know where this power is? There are lots of people who can affect my Life , possibly for Good or more likely to my Disadvantage, but I cannot think of anyone where I can have a significant effect in either of those directions. I cannot hire nor fire anyone, grant them a mortage or loan, advance them on a hospital waiting list, sentence them to fines nor imprisonment, arrest them, give them orders.
So, sorry Stewart, I'm your average 5'8", "John Citizen", pays his taxes, keeps to the Law, tries to be decent to the other man and live my life in peace, but I wield very little power indeed!
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Post by a on May 12, 2005 12:02:22 GMT
"So I would love to know where this power is? Within you and around you. A lot closer that you appear to realise. Think about what I have been writing for the past couple of years, it does explain it. You are thinking physically Taylorsman. Could I suggest that you try to think more conceptually and have a good think, and then add a measure of willpower, and in time you should see the fruits. Only because you appear not yet ready to understand and access it. I would hope that one of the higher orders that you are in would help you (understand) on your journey here. Taylorsman, within you is power (I really do dislike that word) of such devastating beauty that is waiting to be found and nurtured. I will warn you however it takes a great deal of inner courage to get there. Which is one reason why we have tools to help guide and assist us as we travel on our journey, smooth our ashlar, and (re)build our temple. Have a look, you have a lot of good company around you to help you.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 12, 2005 12:24:27 GMT
Taylorsmen and Stewartedwrsds:
I appreciate your discussion on power but I feel that we are so getting away from the proposed theme.
So I propose a new thread: Power and Authority. Post there, Brethren!
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