giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 18, 2005 8:40:28 GMT
Romans had two words for law: lex and jus.
The former comes from "lego", to collect, to gather, while the latter from "iungo", to join (Sanskrit yoga).
I think that "lex" lies on the horizontal plane whilst "jus" recalls the idea of verticality: the plumb of the GAOTU.
"Lex" and "jus" cannot match each other: we feel that many laws are the expressions of the majority of the Parliament, in democracy, or even worse of the oligarchy or the dictator himself.
Which is, or rather, should be the attitude of a Freemason in respect of a law which he feels to be against his principles and his conscience?
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Post by taylorsman on May 18, 2005 11:45:10 GMT
There is, has been, and always will be a tremendous difference between Law and Justice. One can get Law from any Court and can even buy Law if one has the money to afford a good Lawyer, but Justice is far more difficult to obtain and I feel comes from God alone.
As to whether one follows the Law or one's Conscience, the "Voice of Justice". Many men died in Nazi Germany for refusing to obey the Law then in force but after the War some died precisely because they DID obey those Laws. I would say it's for each Individual to follow his own Light in this question. I would not dare to tell someone what they should do.
A good example from Literature is found in Herman Melville's "Billy Budd". Briefly, Budd is a seaman on a Merchant ship during the Napoleonic War when he is pressed into service in a Royal Navy "Man of War" . He is quite a simple man , indeed nowadays would be called "mentally deficient". He is falsely accused of plotting a mutiny by Claggert the Master at Arms who is a bully, Budd hits Claggert who falls, strikes his head and dies. Budd is tried by a Court Martial convened by Captain Vere the ship's Captain. At first they consider that whilst Budd did strike Claggert and cause his death, it was not his intent to kill and as a simpleton he could not have been responsible morally. They wish to find him Not Guilty, the finding based on JUSTICE but Captain Vere admonishes them that their duty is to try the matter according to Military LAW and as such Budd is Guilty of murder and is eventually hanged.
This story illustrates the dichotomy between Justice and Law far better than any more mundane example I could offer.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on May 19, 2005 21:48:12 GMT
Jus and Lex are not Justice and Law, however.
Jus, frequently found in the form jus jurandum, communicates our idea of an oath, a thing which is binding on you, and binds you to it; as well as, in an extended sense, to everyone else in society.
Lex, however, is the body of the law, the "collected" regulations. In ancient Rome, these were posted as bronze tablets in the Forum for all to read: "reading" is one of the possible meanings of lex, legis.
Our word law is etymologically identical to love: the significance is "promise", the undertaking to abide by the conventions of society. Our idea of justice is probably a conflation of justitia, the personification of the legal profession, and justesse/giustezza, the quality of fairness.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 20, 2005 8:48:58 GMT
Billy Budd's story recalls me the dilemma of Antigon, who chose to obey to her conscience rather than to the laws of Creonte, since these appeared to her as an iniquity.
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Post by taylorsman on May 21, 2005 14:55:01 GMT
Following on from this Law Vs Justice argument, is it ever right to ignore or even actively break a Law or Rule because one feels that it is unjust?
On another thread there is matter of Recognition of Grand Lodges in foreign lands and whether a Regular British Mason should attend or not and what he would do if he found out that his GL for some reason did not recognise that foreign Grand Lodge.
It has not arisen for me so far but if invited by a Brother Freemason to his Lodge in an overseas country I would consider the Bond of Friendship to be of great power and influence and act accordingly, especially if the Recognition issue was over some technicality and not some grave breach of the normally accepted rules regarding Political involvement etc.
Now some would condemn me for that stance, but I would personally consider it a far greater "sin" to insult my host and spurn his hospitality.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on May 22, 2005 1:43:41 GMT
Absolutely the right action to take, Brother. Anything else, while adhering to the letter of Masonic conduct, would make a nonsense of its spirit.
As the principles and governing anima of any movement necessarily antedate any formal wording, and are not subject to the various judgements of men and the influences of fashion, it is to them that our first duty maintains. In the field, the builder must level the ground and fix his own verticals as best he can. There can be no plumbline straighter than that a Mason hangs by, and for, himself. He cannot deviate where it hangs true.
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Post by taylorsman on May 22, 2005 7:07:45 GMT
Ruff, yet AGAIN we agree!!!!!! If Freemasonry is about nothing else it is about Brotherhood! I am sure that in actual fact most Ordinary Brethren will plead ignorance of such strictures and thus blissfully unaware, "clothe, enter the Lodge, and work with that harmony which should at all times characterise Freemasons" . I really cannot see a Mason who is not of High Rank but just "yer man in the Apron" attending a Lodge as a guest in the USA, seeing some Black Brethren there as well, then asking if they are in a Prince Hall Lodge , then leaving before the Meeting starts and going back to his hotel if they are in one such Lodge which is not Recognised by UGLE. Get Real! The good old maxim, used as you will know in a another context, "never ask, never tell" comes to mind, as does the even older and equally true "Where 'tis bliss to be ignorant...."
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 22, 2005 7:31:58 GMT
To comply with Regulations means to comply with the laws of men. To complywith one's own conscience means to hear God within us.
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Post by taylorsman on May 22, 2005 7:45:25 GMT
A good definition, Giovanni and one that has motivated many down through the ages often to their own disadvantage and even their death.
I doubt that most of us would have the guts to defy a Law backed by the Power of the State, whether that Power was backed by sheer (military) force - Stalin's Russia, Hitler's Germany, or the less robust but equally persuasive sanctions of Fines or Imprisonment as used in the Democracies. It is a lot easier to close one's eyes and ears and comply or condone.
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Post by atarnaris on May 22, 2005 9:15:04 GMT
To comply with Regulations means to comply with the laws of men. To complywith one's own conscience means to hear God within us. Well said Bro.
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Post by atarnaris on May 22, 2005 9:18:18 GMT
It is a lot easier to close one's eyes and ears and comply or condone. By closing eyes and ears we enter voluntarily into Darkness. Always remember what the III degree taught us, and that the Eternity of facing the Real Judge lies ahead of us. This is not unreal, this is the only certainty. Woe to them, who will abide by the earth's law and forget that Law Divine.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on May 22, 2005 9:34:51 GMT
When i took my Obligation in the Third for some strange reason i chose to close my eyes throughout.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 23, 2005 7:39:08 GMT
When i took my Obligation in the Third for some strange reason i chose to close my eyes throughout. this happened because you opened "the third eye".
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on May 23, 2005 19:21:39 GMT
Oh no: he had his trousers zipped at the time.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 24, 2005 8:05:04 GMT
Ruff, you'd better take some lessons of anatomy by Atarnaris! Or was yours a wishful thinking?
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on May 24, 2005 22:43:20 GMT
I was referring to the meatus penis, sometimes known as the ocus japonicus.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 25, 2005 8:04:09 GMT
Doubtless! Honni soit...
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