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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 13, 2007 7:16:01 GMT
When I was a councellor with a Men's Group it was necessary to deflect some men's fear that in thinking about suicide correlated with the fact that they would therefore commit suicide. In fact I would suggest the opposite - those who thought about suicide, seriously thought, would not in fact commit suicide. I tried to help a few Guys with this, only because they were close friends, one friend pulled into a layby in rural Essex and poured a Gallon of petrol on himself and then set light to himself, died in about 20 secs. Another tried the old pipe in the car window thing, but he was found and survived. Another tried jumping under a train but missed. My conclusion after 15 years of trying to figure out why? there is no logic in suicide. we the survivors try to attach logic to it, but there is none there to find. So it is morally right to wish someone dead , but it is doubtful morality to not wish them dead. Absolutely, where I differ is he has no right to get on that high horse if others do just the same. Of course, this would apply to all of us.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 13, 2007 8:57:53 GMT
Maat mentioned Saddam earlier on the thread. I picked up on that point.
Bill, thanks for the offer of your "help" in what you posted. It was as is often the case unsolicited. I thank you for your intentions which I am sure are motivated only by good, and rest assured that if and when I wish and feel that I NEED your help I will ask you for it. That also goes for MP and Maat.
As to your speaking your words freely and frankly on this or any other Forum, that is your right and it is not for me to criticise. Neither do I have to agree with what you say and in most cases, as you are well aware, I dont.
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Post by middlepillar on Feb 13, 2007 9:21:57 GMT
So far the only reply worthy of comment that I have read on this thread since it went on the Open Forum, is that of Wayseer. Do you know what Steve, I am really sorry if you think I am picking you uphere but the above statement just about sums things up. Wayseer was defending your right to what you say, and applauding your 'honesty' he is not commenting on the original purpose or topic of the thread. I criticised what I considered to be an ill informed comment by yourself, and then went on to answer or contribute to the topic. So I have to deduce from your quote above you are more interested in talking about yourself than the subject. Or you think what I did say was a complete crock of proverbial! Thanks
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Post by a on Feb 13, 2007 9:33:16 GMT
Oh dear.
Well I also sat down for dinner one night and found this new girl there. I thought that she was the new girlfriend of one of the others there. I looked at her and knew that I would marry her. Turns out she had just started a college course and it was her first day in London.
I have also met other people who "I know" so to speak. Not know that I will marry them, but just "Know". For good and bad.
One of the reasons why I know that there is more than one lifetime. I am sure that there is a lot of carryforward in karmic debts and in helpfullness as we journey. It is just a question of passing through the veils.
Have you ever met someone that you feel you know? If so there is a hidden mystery worthy of study.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 13, 2007 11:15:20 GMT
I reserve the right to answer back when I am attacked and that is what, quite politely, I have done. Bro MP, whatever you consider your own words to be is a far better judgement or self-criticism than I could ever utter.
I have said all I feel is relevant on this matter. An Individual is free to hate or love whomsoever he or she chooses. as far as I can see.
I coud bore the pants off of everybody by mentioning Hitler and they way that he whipped up hatred for the Jews in the German People in the 1930s and whether they were brainwashed or coerced into this or if it was dormant and waiting only for someone like him to ignite and harness it for his own purposes. I will leave this line for someone else to explore.
Havea good debate folks.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 13, 2007 11:33:25 GMT
Steve when you have a conversation with anyone, you listen and take in that which you want to take in. You discard that which you are not interested in.
Help? you will find, at least in my experience, that those who really need help never solicit it. Because logic would dictate that if they knew they needed help they would ask.
You are free to listen or close your ears as you wish.
As a Christian I have to speak up on this subject.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 13, 2007 12:08:52 GMT
"Steve when you have a conversation with anyone, you listen and take in that which you want to take in. You discard that which you are not interested in."
As does the greater percentage of people in my experience.
"You are free to listen or close your ears as you wish."
Thanks for that Freedom. I will be glad to continue to do so. Democracy may mean Freedom of Speech but it also means Freedom not to have to listen nor read.
"As a Christian I have to speak up on this subject."
Youi must do what your Light leads you to do. God knows, there has been enough hatred spread in the name of Christianity if not in the Name of Christ, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Burning of so-called Witches in the time of Matthew Hopkins etc, the current animosity on both sides in Ulster. Let he without sin, as the Founder of that Faith once said.
I shall leave you all to debate amongst yourselves as to who is the most Righteous. I will remain in the Real World and act accordingly.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 13, 2007 13:04:37 GMT
Hi Stewart!! I dragged Ma'at's table over here 'cause I'm gonna need it if I'm gonna talk safely with you. Tell me what you're having and I'll have the bar under the table send it over ;D I think many of us have met old friends for the first time ever. I've done it quite a lot. But is this "love at first site" or a sort of recognition that there is God in everyone? For if it is (and *I* think it is), then we are responding to that God in everyone. And if God is in everyone, then we are in everyone. And they are in us. And if we see something we love in someone else, we love ourselves in them. And we see something that we hate in someone else . . . yes, then we hate ourselves in them. That part is tough but I think it's true as well. Y'know, Namaste.
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Post by a on Feb 13, 2007 13:59:40 GMT
imakegarb
You know I think you are right.
As a side note I recently gave a talk about that particular wee sleekit cowran timourous beastie. It led on to a wonderful discussion about energies and illumination through the ages. Ties in nicely with this topic I think.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 13, 2007 14:32:59 GMT
Returning to the topic: isn't love an emotion that we have little or no control over?
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 13, 2007 21:32:47 GMT
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 13, 2007 22:48:01 GMT
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Post by maat on Feb 13, 2007 23:21:05 GMT
Maybe, because it is Valentine's Day, we can get a little "Love is...." thing going. We will keep it up for the day and then maybe tomorrow we can look at the contributions and then decide if we can 'choose' who/what to love.
I'll start the ball rolling.
Love is... feeling sad when we see a person/animal/plant suffering and wanting to help.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 14, 2007 0:20:01 GMT
>isn't love an emotion that we have little or no control over?
Leonardo
I think there are several issues here.
One is that love can exist physically, emotionally, mentally, on heart levels, spiritual will levels and on it goes
Thus "love" is a quality of relationship and can be expressed on as many rungs of Jacob's Ladder as we can access
Can we control love?
Well we can control physical love - at least the law requires us to.
Some of us aspire to falling in love, but others of us recognise that falling in love with every member of the opposite sex one we know from past lives is not so clever. This is primarily emotional
And you may have experienced that your mother was able to turn on extra love whenever you were upset.
Can mental love be controlled? Well if thoughts can be controlled so can mental love.
And so it goes
Cheers
Russell
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 14, 2007 0:28:02 GMT
Ma'at, I'll add to your list. However, I'm ever mindful that love is more than just its "Eros" manifestation; for I have found that "Philia" and "Agape" can be at least as intense: “Love is a friendship set to music.” - Joseph Campbell
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Post by wayseer on Feb 14, 2007 2:16:16 GMT
Sorry Maat, I only just pick up on your question As I indicated - there are those who claim the high moral ground and tell others how and what to think - all the time denying, pretenting to deny really, the murkiness of their own Wayseer, just reading your post again - are you assuming that anybody who takes a high moral ground is murky? No. I anchored my response to the proviso - and tell others how and what to think - all the time denying, pretenting to deny really, the murkiness of their ownI can only applaud those who do take the high moral ground and then live that ground. They have my deepest respect and admiration.
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Post by choochoo808 on Sept 19, 2011 16:15:46 GMT
So is it possible to chose who you love. I think not. Something I'm starting to grasp, however, is that love isn't the end unto itself, but simply a means. No matter how much you love a person, can it not be unrequited? Thus, I'm learning that love, no matter how strong or true, needn't be "validated". It simply is, and will always continue to be. When you don't fill your pail from the river, does it stop flowing? Nay, it goes ever on and on, to paraphrase Prof. Tolkien.
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Post by nventr on Oct 3, 2011 4:01:56 GMT
Ma'at, I'll add to your list. However, I'm ever mindful that love is more than just its "Eros" manifestation; for I have found that "Philia" and "Agape" can be at least as intense: “Love is a friendship set to music.” - Joseph CampbellI agree with imakegarb. We can choose which energy of love we use. We can calm a sad heart or strengthen the defeated by choosing to bring down the cooling water of Grace or Agape. We can also bring caring to an otherwise intellectual situation by turning up the heat of Passion or Eros. Can we choose to love? I say no, because love comes from both directions.
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Post by whistler on Oct 3, 2011 8:25:46 GMT
The emotion of love is most powerful of all emotions.
Just trying sending love to anybody around you who annoys you, or is angry with you =-- you don't have to say anything just send the thoughts and watch for the changes.
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