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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 2:00:49 GMT
www.uglofa.org/or www.grandorientusa.orgThe Grand Orient of the United States of America is a continuation of the Masonic traditions begun by brothers such as Benjamin Franklin and the Marquis De Lafayette. Our lineage can be traced back through the Grand Orient of France to the original speculative Grand Lodge of London that was established in 1717. These traditions and ideas are at the very core of Enlightenment thinking that eventually resulted in the freedoms enjoyed by every American today. We hold true to these beliefs: * That all human beings are endowed with certain inalienable rights * That peace and harmony among human beings is only possible where there exists a separation between church and state * That absolute freedom of conscience is an essential element in the pursuit of happiness among all peoples * That all human beings are created equal and that equality is fundamental to democracy and freedom What is today the Grand Orient of the United States of America began on December 27th, 2005; several lodges declared their independence from the 'Antient' Masonic system and formed a confederation of sovereign lodges under the banner of United Grand Lodge of America. In so doing, they sought to restore Modern Free-Masonry to the American continent and return to the traditional Enlightenment and cosmopolitan ideals expressed in the original Craft. This event allowed the original streams of Masonic thought still existing in Europe to once again flow freely into lodges in America. In November of 2007, several more lodges declared their independence from the 'Antient' Masonic system and the Council of the Order was convened to formalize our relationship with our brethren in France and throughout Europe. The Council voted unanimously to change the name of the United Grand Lodge of America to the Grand Orient of the United States of America to better and more precisely identify it with the existing currents of Modern Free-Masonry throughout the world. The Grand Orient of the United States of America is a masculine Masonic obedience that works together with the mixed-gender obedience lodges operating under George Washington Union throughout the United States. Together, these two systems represent the most liberal and progressive form of Freemasonry in America, which is open to all people regardless of race, creed, or sex. Our aim is the brotherhood of all humanity through a universal chain of union extending around the globe. If you are already with us in spirit then you are welcome to join with us in Masonic lodges throughout the world.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 4:19:25 GMT
I am so happy about this I am about to burst!! ;D
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 26, 2007 4:56:24 GMT
Yes just what US Freemasonry needs another Grand Lodge ?
Does anyone ever think of working from the ground up ?
OK its great for those who like the idea good get on with it and enjoy.
But is it only me an Englishman that can see a constant rolling out of new US Lodges Grand or otherwise looks like desperation, UGLoA did not work so lets try this style see if that will work.
All the rhetoric sound very good but has anyone given any thought to the damage that will be done with the arguments that will inevitably follow.
From this angle it looks like someone is looking to create a civil war in US Freemasonry, like a Masonic Jihad.
Wasn't this site the 'United Grand Lodge of America' site yesterday ? Its now morphed into Grand Oriente of America ?
jeff the principles of the Grand lodges are all in line, but this methodology of creation is not, I'm sorry but it has to be said.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 5:33:33 GMT
Yes just what US Freemasonry needs another Grand Lodge ? Does anyone ever think of working from the ground up ? OK its great for those who like the idea good get on with it and enjoy. But is it only me an Englishman that can see a constant rolling out of new US Lodges Grand or otherwise looks like desperation, UGLoA did not work so lets try this style see if that will work. All the rhetoric sound very good but has anyone given any thought to the damage that will be done with the arguments that will inevitably follow. From this angle it looks like someone is looking to create a civil war in US Freemasonry, like a Masonic Jihad. Wasn't this site the 'United Grand Lodge of America' site yesterday ? Its now morphed into Grand Oriente of America ? jeff the principles of the Grand lodges are all in line, but this methodology of creation is not, I'm sorry but it has to be said. Bill, It is pretty simple. The mainstream is in trouble, yet they want to do nothing about it. In fact they have accelerated it by gowing out of their way to alienate. Some of us wanted an alternative. The UGLA was version 1.0 and like any new endevour some things proved successful and others failures. Through extensive communication with the GOdF now we have that alternative. The GOdF has treated us like Brothers and men, we appreciate that. So Mote it Be, Brad
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 26, 2007 6:12:44 GMT
Hey go for it if that is what you all want.
I am just giving a picture of what it looks like from an observers point of view.
I suspect this may well have even more damaging affect on International relationships in Freemasonry, but if 'Grand Oriente de France' Freemasons do not care then why should anyone else.
Do you know how many mails I get asking why does UGLE not recognise our Grand Lodge, well this just answered one email for me.
Just to Clarify the situation for those who may not know.
Recognition Issue 'Grand Oriente de France' Over time it has established its own traditions which were in contradiction to the traditions of Freemasonry that were prevalent in English speaking countries such as the United States, Canada, Australia, and United Kingdom, as well as countries such as India, Russia, and South Africa. For example, the GOdF admits Atheists while these other Grand Lodges require their members to have a belief in deity. The majority of Masonic Jurisdictions withdrew recognition from the Grand Orient over this issue, and they now deem it "irregular".
Female Membership It was one of the first Masonic orders to allow some of its lodges to become adoptive (i.e. to admit women although it does not initiate them). In 1774, following the introduction of Rites of Adoption in several of its lodges, it issued an edict authorising them, the Duchess of Bourbon being elected first Grand Mistress of France. This also is a bone of contention between GOdF and many other Grand Lodges.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 7:11:34 GMT
Bill, No need to rehash anti GOdF propaganda, we have all read it before. All I know is that everyone from the GOdF that I have had direct contact with has treated me as a Brother. That is what matters, to me at least. Brad
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Nov 26, 2007 7:29:41 GMT
Female Membership It was one of the first Masonic orders to allow some of its lodges to become adoptive (i.e. to admit women although it does not initiate them). In 1774, following the introduction of Rites of Adoption in several of its lodges, it issued an edict authorising them, the Duchess of Bourbon being elected first Grand Mistress of France. This also is a bone of contention between GOdF and many other Grand Lodges. For over a Century this practice coexisted with cross Channel amity.
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Post by penfold on Nov 26, 2007 7:29:57 GMT
Jeff, please post links like this into the link section where they belong
Thank you.
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 26, 2007 10:09:05 GMT
Congratulations! We too have Grand Orient of France and Grand Lodge of France meeting in the UK , and as LDH has Fraternal Relations with these two bodies I hope to visit them in due time.
I feel you may be happier and more fulfilled with Grand Orient than the Anglo-Saxon version of Freemasonry to which you have previously belonged.
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 26, 2007 10:44:09 GMT
Bill, No need to rehash anti GOdF propaganda, we have all read it before. All I know is that everyone from the GOdF that I have had direct contact with has treated me as a Brother. That is what matters, to me at least. Brad OK great Brad , but you have not been telling them their Freemasonry is rubbish so at the moment you have not upset them. Now I have had nothing but reasonable conversations on here from you and Jeff. But even I can see why your US Brothers are so steamed and you say it like they have no right to be annoyed. Its not propaganda its what it is, just a reference so the reader understands what the background is. I dont remember UGLoA renouncing a belief in a supreme being, or indeed appointing Females so that was the position last year and this year it is different ? So it is not a matter of is this right or wrong, it is a matter of just not being believable. Freemasonry as we see promoted here by a number of guises is not about changing the rules until we get some people to join, its about being honest , truthful and being happy. Trust me Brad I am as passionate as you or Jeff or anyone else that would like to debate here. Freemasonry has to be what you truly believe it should be, if it changes from year to year then someone is kidding themselves let alone kidding others.
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 26, 2007 10:58:44 GMT
Female Membership It was one of the first Masonic orders to allow some of its lodges to become adoptive (i.e. to admit women although it does not initiate them). In 1774, following the introduction of Rites of Adoption in several of its lodges, it issued an edict authorising them, the Duchess of Bourbon being elected first Grand Mistress of France. This also is a bone of contention between GOdF and many other Grand Lodges. For over a Century this practice coexisted with cross Channel amity. Indeed it was the no supreme being rule. In 1877, at the instigation of the Protestant priest Frédéric Desmons, it allowed those who had no belief in a Supreme being - which was a Landmark of the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE). It was this decision that has been the root cause of the schism between the Grand Orient (and those lodges that followed it), and the rest of Freemasonry.
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 26, 2007 12:40:17 GMT
I used to have some difficulties with the idea of an "Atheist Freemason". Then I thought more deeply about it . The fact that someone else is does not share my belief in a Supreme Being does not vitiate my own belief therein, that is something I have arrived at after the usual rejection that many people have in their teens. By logic , investigation and study I returned to a Faith in God, (or whatever other man-made name one wishes to attribute to the Deity).
The professed Atheist is indeed being honest, both with themselves and others unlike one who may pay Lip Service to a belief in a Supreme Being in order to gain admission to a Lodge and to Freemasonry. However, I cannot see into someone's mind nor am I the Keeper of their Conscience.
To be frank these days I would find it far easier indeed to sit in a Lodge such as one belonging to the Grand Orient of France with an Atheist who had respect for the beliefs of others and had come to their Degrees by due study and understanding of Freemasonry than an "Instant Whip" Master Mason who had gained their Three Degrees in the space of a few hours along with hundreds of others in a One Day Class.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 12:49:35 GMT
Bill,
The UGLA didn't go away, it just made some new friends and changed its name. :-)
Jeff
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Post by tws on Nov 26, 2007 13:00:18 GMT
Bill, The UGLA didn't go away, it just made some new friends and changed its name. :-) Jeff What are they calling themselves today? Or is this name going to stick for a month or two?
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 26, 2007 13:04:39 GMT
Yes you said that in the first post.
Jeff we have both been round the block a few times and your a smart Guy. You will know some of what I say is a criticism and some to show loopholes.
You are all grown ups and you will do what you feel is right.
My problem is with the changing of horses. Not for my sake I can not be affected by this, but for your sake and the Brothers on both sides of what I see will be an even bigger divide than before. But we shall see how it works out.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Nov 26, 2007 14:35:46 GMT
Masons used to discuss politics and religion within the Lodge, but that changed. Freemasonry used to have as it's tenets Liberty, Equality and Fraternity; today it is charity, relief and truth or faith, hope and charity, a distinct difference. Hence another change to the craft. Changes have come at regular intervals, today is the one time that implemented rules to not make changes. Changes are a part of Nature, and we as masons should attempt to mimick Nature and its evolution upward. Not staying stagnant, trying to bottle yesteryear and sell it.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 14:39:19 GMT
Bill, there is no divide of any kind. We agree with the Grand Orient of France on the issues and have joined forces with them. We're not upset or angry with anyone. Actually, we're happy and enthusiastic to be a part of something we can actually agree with and work within. The Grand Orient of France has proven to be the most wonderful and enlightened group of Masons I've ever met. The marriage between the UGLA and the GOdF is one that was truly made in heaven.
Jeff
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Post by leonardo on Nov 26, 2007 14:42:10 GMT
Bill, there is no divide of any kind. We agree with the Grand Orient of France on the issues and have joined forces with them. We're not upset or angry with anyone. Actually, we're happy and enthusiastic to be a part of something we can actually agree with and work within. The Grand Orient of France has proven to be the most wonderful and enlightened group of Masons I've ever met. The marriage between the UGLA and the GOdF is one that was truly made in heaven. Jeff This is wonderful to hear Bro. Jeff. Long may it continue.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Nov 26, 2007 14:59:16 GMT
For over a Century this practice coexisted with cross Channel amity. Indeed it was the no supreme being rule. In 1877, at the instigation of the Protestant priest Frédéric Desmons, it allowed those who had no belief in a Supreme being - which was a Landmark of the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE). It was this decision that has been the root cause of the schism between the Grand Orient (and those lodges that followed it), and the rest of Freemasonry. I wonder if the later emphasis on the "irregularity" of such associations was part of a constellation of convenient excuses, along with the French policy of laïcité and their proliferation of degrees, to justify the withdrawal of recognition, with underlying francophobia (heightened by the revolution) being more germane. I am reminded of the Yes Minister episode entitled The Challenge, in which Sir Humphrey corrected Jim Hacker, pointing out that the French had been their enemy long before the Russians.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 15:53:27 GMT
Bill, No need to rehash anti GOdF propaganda, we have all read it before. All I know is that everyone from the GOdF that I have had direct contact with has treated me as a Brother. That is what matters, to me at least. Brad OK great Brad , but you have not been telling them their Freemasonry is rubbish so at the moment you have not upset them. Now I have had nothing but reasonable conversations on here from you and Jeff. But even I can see why your US Brothers are so steamed and you say it like they have no right to be annoyed. Its not propaganda its what it is, just a reference so the reader understands what the background is. I dont remember UGLoA renouncing a belief in a supreme being, or indeed appointing Females so that was the position last year and this year it is different ? So it is not a matter of is this right or wrong, it is a matter of just not being believable. Freemasonry as we see promoted here by a number of guises is not about changing the rules until we get some people to join, its about being honest , truthful and being happy. Trust me Brad I am as passionate as you or Jeff or anyone else that would like to debate here. Freemasonry has to be what you truly believe it should be, if it changes from year to year then someone is kidding themselves let alone kidding others. Why would I tell them that GOdF Freemasonry is rubbish? It is anything but rubbish, it is beautiful. The GOdF is the GL of Ben Franklin, The Marquis De LaFeyette, John Paul Jones, Joseph Bonaparte and many other great men throughout history. The Lodge Of The Nine Sisters is argueably the most important Masonic loge (historically) in the world. The "deregulazation" of the GOdF has zero to do with women or athiests. It has to do with the GOdF to be the first Masonic body recognize a masonic lodge in the USA with an interracial membership. They where declared "clandestine" for being Masonic. I will take that.
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