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Post by atarnaris on Jun 25, 2006 11:50:07 GMT
What are the origins of the figure of the Tree of Life?
And I mean the figure....
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Post by hollandr on Jun 26, 2006 0:33:09 GMT
Andrew Here are some early trees of life www.vohuman.org/Article/The%20Sumerian%20Tree%20of%20Life_files/image001.jpgThis Sumerian image has 2 gods sitting either side of the tree with a snake at the left side. They are gods (and not Adam and Eve) because they wear the horned helmets of the gods. This is also the nordic tradition - but there were strong connections between the red haired celts and the Phoenicians (red people) volker-doormann.org/iitree00.jpgThe above is also Sumerian, I think, and it noticeably closer to the Jewish geometric form. There is perhaps a South American feel to it as well www.crystalinks.com/enkilab.jpgThis one dates back to making man from "clay". Again Sumerian and the tree of life probably provides an important ingredient in making the "lulu" (slave worker) There is an interesting question as to how the Jews obtained such a geometric form for the Tree. Their earlier form is the menorah. www.byzant.com/images/kabbalah/MenorahTree.jpgIt is important to distinguish the Tree of Life from The World Tree. They are not the same at all. Cheers Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 26, 2006 2:53:50 GMT
Mods should transfer this to the Kabbalah thread.
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Post by hollandr on Jun 26, 2006 8:57:13 GMT
To add a little more The Sumerian depictions of the Tree include some naturalistic images so that one might wonder if the Tree of Life (and a Tree of Knowledge) had some organic basis. "In Sumerian mythology the gishkin tree in the temple of Enki at Eridu. "may well represent a tree of life."" Thus we have: - The Tree of Life - The Water of Life - The Bread of Life. And the gods tended to carry around an emergency supply in something that looked like a cake plate or a purse www.crystalinks.com/annunakiman.jpgThis one also seems to carry some shew bread (cone). www.oannes.com/nimrod.jpgAnd here is Oannes with his hand bag and he also seems perhaps to be holding a cone www.crystalinks.com/zfishseal.jpgAnd here are 2 annedotus (companions of Oannes) again with hand bags and this time with the Tree of Life. Could it be that they filled their hand bags from the Tree of Life www.crystalinks.com/olmecserpent.jpgand here is the handbag in South America There is much to be recovered Cheers Russell
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Post by atarnaris on Jun 27, 2006 7:37:11 GMT
Russell,
Thank you for your efforts to solve a difficult problem.
You almost touched the solution when you mentioned "as to how the Jews obtained such a geometric form for the Tree".
Although we had images of trees in early traditions, the Tree of Life has nothing to do with a tree image wise !!! Neither does the Menorah....
The Tree of Life is a geometrical figure. So the question arises. Is there a logic pattern behind it? Is it the solution of a mathematical proble? Is it a problem that can be solved wih a square and compass?
Who was the one who was teaching philosophy with square and compassess?
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Post by hollandr on Jun 27, 2006 11:08:03 GMT
Andrew
I suspect that the natural tree of life is quite a different entity to the kabbalistic tree of life.
I suspect that there is a tree that provided substances that the aliens used to maintain their lifespan on this planet and carried in their hand bags.
By the usual veiling the same name is used for the energetic formulae used for manipulation of the life force in a variety of entities that have to be shoe-horned into various body types
The question then is: who amongst the jews was instructed in the manufacture of entities with artificially attached intelligences (gollums)?
Cheers
Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 27, 2006 23:21:17 GMT
What are the origins of the figure of the Tree of Life?
And I mean the figure.... Lemme guess - some Greek guy? My first is in Pint but also in Pie My second in Yes but also in Why My third is in Tea but isn't in Cup My fourth is in Hound but isn't in Pup My fifth is in Alpha and Omega too My sixth is in Garden but isn't in Zoo My seventh's in Ox but isn't in Bull My eighth is in Rattan but isn't in Wool My ninth is in Amy and also in Charlotte My tenth is in Slut and also in Harlot My all is a Greek who with compasses drew So answer my riddle and tell me I'm - Who?!
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Post by hollandr on Jun 27, 2006 23:56:49 GMT
Ruff
I would be surprised if the current geometric form for the Tree of Life were so late as to be Greek - the greeks being regarded by the egyptian priests as children and ignorant of history.
Do you have some sort of evidence?
My perception is that the geometric form we use for the Tree of Life is useful for discovering the nature of cities and landscapes. In other words, the structure has some fundamental reality
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Jun 28, 2006 0:35:46 GMT
I am amused that the higher intelligences all carried handbags. Nothing has changed ;D
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Post by hollandr on Jun 28, 2006 0:57:00 GMT
Maat
In a sense nothing has changed - the gods carried the means of eternal youth in their hand bags and these days hand bags tend to carry the means of pretending eternal youth (makeup)
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Jun 28, 2006 1:35:33 GMT
;D ;D ;D
I didn't see that one coming... Touche pussy cat!
Maat
PSssst: What did they do when 'the means' no longer worked?
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Post by hollandr on Jun 28, 2006 1:54:28 GMT
>What did they do when 'the means' no longer worked?
The means continues to work upon the aliens. And since we are at virtually identical genetically, the bread of life and water of life would work on us too to provide extremely long life spans.
This is one of the uses of potable gold (from alchemy)
Cheers
Russell
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Post by hollandr on Jun 28, 2006 2:53:03 GMT
>And I mean the figure....
Andrew
I suspect that the origins of the figure are not the same as how the Jews learned of it.
My observation is that you can analyse the underlying characteristics of cities by examining how they lie in relationship to the Tree of Life across the landscape.
Thus the nature of cities is pre-disposed by the pillar and sephira to which they are geographically closest.
Where there are two trees on the landscape it is possible for close cities to have quite different characteristics by lying on pillars from different trees. An example of this in Australia is Rockhampton (conservative beef city) lying on the Form pillar of a Tree facing into the earth, close to Gladstone (dynamic industrial city) lying on the outer edge of the Energy pillar of a Tree facing up into the heavens.
If you look at continent of Australia and reduce it to 2 parallelograms you can see the 2 Trees pretty easily.
Thus the geometry of the Tree is observable in the landscape at macro and often micro levels - with due allowance for energy needing to follow lines of least resistance e.g. large ore bodies.
(The mysteries are shouted from the roof tops but who will hear them)
As to how the Jews obtained that pattern and at a fairly late date, I can only speculate.
But, it seems they obtained the pattern some time after Abraham left Sumer and perhaps after they left Egypt.
This might indicate some connection with Moses and the departure (What a can of worms in there)
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Jun 28, 2006 5:23:02 GMT
any links that will demonstrate what you are saying? Not doubting it just can't quite picture it.. Thanks Maat
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Post by hollandr on Jun 28, 2006 6:00:59 GMT
Maat
Here's a hint: The 2 middle pillars cross at Ayers Rock
Cheers
Russell
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Jun 28, 2006 13:57:08 GMT
Perhaps, when we consider the image of the Tree of Life (to return to an earlier aspect of this thread), it may be useful to also keep in mind that even within the Kabalistic tradition(s), there is not a single model, but rather numerous ones.
Also, within the Kabalistic tradition, its connection to Genesis is intrinsic.
With regards to the Sumerian or Babylonian depiction of those trees, there may indeed be a close rapport with the biblical description. After all, in some regions it was one of the few wild trees that gave an abundance of food, and that in bunches that could also be (semi-)dried and carried for vast distances (I refer to the date palm, something that seems to be depicted in Babylonian artifacts).
The 'modern' and more abstract depictions of the Tree of Life appear to date from between the 12th and 16th centuries, with its standardisation in the later part of this transition period.
It is also interesting that this coincides with both a proto-renaissance that later (within that same period) becomes the full-blown renaissance and humanity's awakening to what appears to be a new developmental phase.
It is also that same period that sees the development of what, within a couple more centuries, becomes standardised Freemasonry, and, independently, standardised Tarot (with the development of the 'Marseille'-type deck).
The Tree of Life, then, seems to me quite independent of our Greek Pi applicator (and certainly later, not earlier), and quite Earth bound, though with undoubtedly his or her sights well in the heavenly regions.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 28, 2006 14:06:28 GMT
I would be surprised if the current geometric form for the Tree of Life were so late as to be Greek [...] Do you have some sort of evidence?That's rich coming from the famous proponent of the Isis Theory of the Widow However, no - no evidence, and I don't actually believe it myself. It's just that atarnaris, our dear friend Andrew, has a fetish or mental block where the Hellenic is concerned. The entirety of human insight, invention and innovation is of Greek origin as far as he's concerned. Get him to tell you his theory on why the Greek letters all have Phoenician names. It'll make you chuckle, I promise.
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Post by atarnaris on Jun 28, 2006 20:57:27 GMT
Get him to tell you his theory on why the Greek letters all have Phoenician names. It'll make you chuckle, I promise.WRONG again Ruff, I can tell you why all the Phoenician letters have Greek names and origin. Like what aleph means, why they chose this name, why it has this shape, etc, etc, etc...for all the letters. Also why aleph is first etc, etc, etc.... Unless of course you believe that God gave them to Moses !!!! In which case, of course, you may believe what you wish. Now, if anyone expects me to write this down... forget it. I have less than an hour to myself/day and I cannot waste it to petty arguments. I can point you out to bibliography if that is more convenient. It's up to you to choose to believe whether man himself or nice God allmighty (who didn't have anything better to do with his life) gave the letters and the alphabet to humanity
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Post by atarnaris on Jun 28, 2006 20:58:58 GMT
Ruff I would be surprised if the current geometric form for the Tree of Life were so late as to be Greek - the greeks being regarded by the egyptian priests as children and ignorant of history. Russell, Find the quote from Plato and read it again. I promise you will be surprised !!!
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Post by atarnaris on Jun 28, 2006 21:04:14 GMT
Ask anyone, and I mean ANYONE who profess to know The Kaballah, or whatever you may wish to call it (Ruff) and noone will give you a rational explanation on the figure.
It's all about God and God and God again.
So God one day that was bored came down and drew the tree on a piece of a paper and gave it to us to ponder for a couple of millenia on what its meaning is. Yes, very...very likely!
Every (mathematical) problem has its (geometrical) solution.
And so does the Tree...
And it is so simple that you can do it at home by using a square and a compass...
No joke!!!
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