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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 0:13:42 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 0:13:42 GMT
Very well said Matt. Thank you.
I favour the questions and answers approach to things myself, probably because I am hopeless at debating. If an opinion is offered - that is all it is - an opinion, no matter what words are used to state it. Taking this approach does help to keep the dander down.
Getting back to LBRP...
Question... if you are living in the Light (your average ordinary law abiding spiritual sort of person) what are you banishing? Surely serious negative stuff would not be drawn to you.
Question... how do you know, or judge, what affect you are causing in the unseen world? We are responsible for all we do and it is hard enough in the seen world to access the benefits we give or the damage we do. eg - if we over-assist a person we are actually weakening them.
Maat
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 0:45:26 GMT
Post by hollandr on Nov 1, 2006 0:45:26 GMT
>Question... if you are living in the Light (your average ordinary law abiding spiritual sort of person) what are you banishing? Surely serious negative stuff would not be drawn to you.
Maat
Do you control your thoughts?
If not, how do you know if some other being controls them? For its own agenda?
In my observation, there are very few humans that do not suffer from intelligent and generally dark interference.
Here is a simple test: visualise your tail bones. Are some darker than others? Why?
> how do you know, or judge, what affect you are causing in the unseen world?
For some decades it is useful to work in a group so that there can be peer review of cause and effect. This assumes that other group members have sufficient inner senses to observe our inner actions and their results. If some group members do not have those inner senses then we might reasonably seek a better group
One of the useful techiques is to access the energies of the 4 tassels:
- reference signal - plan of the work - heart of the galaxy - intent in the galaxy.
Once we can access the second of those we can test our inner and outer actions against the energy flow.
Of course we might equally use a plumbline if we could find one that was suitable
Cheers
Russell
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 1:45:49 GMT
Post by matt on Nov 1, 2006 1:45:49 GMT
Question... if you are living in the Light (your average ordinary law abiding spiritual sort of person) what are you banishing? Surely serious negative stuff would not be drawn to you. Question... how do you know, or judge, what affect you are causing in the unseen world? We are responsible for all we do and it is hard enough in the seen world to access the benefits we give or the damage we do. eg - if we over-assist a person we are actually weakening them. Maat Does your mind ever wander? You are correct, we are responsible for our actions. Many times those actions are affected by outside forces. There are elementals all around us. Many of our own creation, many that are not. These elementals affect how we think and feel. Most of the mystery schools spend the first several grades working specifically with elementals, helping the student recognize them at work. As we receive guidance from the higher self it is often manipulated or drowned out by these elemental forces. Always let your conscience be your guide is not always the most healthy thing to do, unless the elemental influences have been dealt with and you are in fact communicating with your higher self. Also, at other times you may need to invoke entities to help you do your will, at times when you invoke, you get more than you bargain for. It becomes handy to know how to banish. At the most basic level the LBRP does two things for the beginning magician. It helps them establish a routine and dicipline by working it daily, as well as clearing their minds of any impure thoughts that might conflict with their meditations. As far as the unseen world is concerned...you learn to see in it. There are many exercise to help you develope those senses. For the affects that you cant see immediately, experience and a good ritual diary are the best teachers.
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 2:29:15 GMT
Post by hollandr on Nov 1, 2006 2:29:15 GMT
>There are elementals all around us. Many of our own creation, many that are not. These elementals affect how we think and feel
Matt
And not just elementals. There are more impressive beings, both light and dark, looking for recruits
How do we tell if we have been recruited?
Cheers
Russell
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 2:35:55 GMT
Post by matt on Nov 1, 2006 2:35:55 GMT
> And not just elementals. There are more impressive beings, both light and dark, looking for recruits Yes, but the LBRP wont necessarily take care of those
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 3:48:42 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 3:48:42 GMT
... I'm getting the picture - probably could be the answer to "where the heck did that thought come from" scenario.
Thankfully I usually get the good stuff - with me still saying "where the heck did that come from?" followed by a quick "thank you" and a big grin.
So my evil twin made me do it may not be too far from the truth..
Maat
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 4:22:06 GMT
Post by codywarren93 on Nov 1, 2006 4:22:06 GMT
Greetings.
---->proceed slowly and surely and don't dabble without a teacher to show the way.
I would like to suggest that it can be exceedingly hard to find a proper teacher, and that the Work can and should be taken up alone. That being said, proceeding SLOWLY is sound advice.
---->suggest that you read a book called "The Middle Pillar" by Regardie.
I too reccomend this book, as well as Donald Michael Kraigs 'Eleven Lessons in High Magick' which is perhaps the best beginners manual on the market. It walks you through some very good lessons to begin your journey. Take action!
---->Question... if you are living in the Light (your average ordinary law abiding spiritual sort of person) what are you banishing? Surely serious negative stuff would not be drawn to you.
I think when starting off, it is enough to realize that you are banishing any negative thoughts. The LBRP is designed in part to help shift from your wake-a-day consciousness before unertaking any further work. This certainly dosen't mean it is not effective alone. If a person never performed another ritual in his/her life, but performed this one daily, he/she would benefit greatly. As you gain experience with it, you will undoubtedly (hopefully!) proceed with your studies and will begin to realize its deeper meanings/uses. Keep in mind that the LBRP is not dangerous. As far as I know, it is the first ritual (along with the Qabalistic Cross, of course) (I somehow dont even think of them as separate, as they can and should, I think, go together in practice) that is taught in every school of Hermetic Qabalah. Have no fear, for "fear is your only enemy."
---->Question... how do you know, or judge, what affect you are causing in the unseen world?
You can feel it. When the LBRP is performed properly (with the proper effort), you should feel a holiness/cleanliness. When you are beginning, if you cannot feel it.... make yourself feel it. Train yourself to feel it. Magick is about using your Will, regardless of your school of thought. WILL to feel it.
---->experience and a good ritual diary are the best teachers.
Sage advice. Just as the LBRP's daily performance is a tool to build your discipline, among other things, so is the Diary. Keep it. You will find later that not only did you strngthen your discipline, your Will, that the diary has much more profound uses as well.
---->For the affects that you cant see immediately...
For the effects you cannot immediately see, again, you must through your Will, train yourself. When at first you start the LBRP, the pentagrams may not appear to be there. KNOW that they are. Will them to be. Same goes for the Archangels, etc. This is the first step. With enough practice you'll find that they are indeed there, and visible.
----->Thankfully I usually get the good stuff - with me still saying "where the heck did that come from?" followed by a quick "thank you" and a big grin.
Lucky you are to usually get good stuff! Even so, when working Magick (or Yoga), even the good stuff will hinder your success. If it is your Will to pursue such practices, you hafta learn to silence mind (and I have not nearly comepletely succeeded!). The LBRP is one tool to do so.
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 6:18:38 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 6:18:38 GMT
First off - Welcome to the Forum Codywarren93. And thank you - from your first post I can tell we will enjoy your company immensely.
Quote: The LBRP is designed in part to help shift from your wake-a-day consciousness before unertaking any further work.
So - I understand this to be the same as tyling the Lodge?
Question: Can the Christian sign of the Cross, when said with intention, have a similar affect as the LBRP?
Maat
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 6:24:32 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 6:24:32 GMT
Another question - I have quite a few Crowley books including one called (from dim memory) Abramelin the ? . For some years they have been to the back of my largish library and I only recently wondered if I should keep them. I would be loath to put them back in a 2nd hand book shop, which is where I found them.
I have opened them once or twice but they spook me a bit.
Worth keeping?
Maat
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 8:54:18 GMT
Post by taylorsman on Nov 1, 2006 8:54:18 GMT
Abramelin the Mage?
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 9:05:36 GMT
Post by taylorsman on Nov 1, 2006 9:05:36 GMT
The Sign of the Cross if done with true understanding and feeling would I am sure have such an effect. However, in many cases it is done simply as a habit, for example when entering a Church, and thus loses any power it may have held, being then no more than an empty gesture.
I would also like to make the point between the idea of "Crossing oneself" thus marking the body with the Sign of Christ's death, and to the Christian his Sacrifice for the Expiation of Sin, and invoking the powers thereof, and the- to my mind- blasphemous expression used I regret by some in the Glasgow Area and South West of Scotland when making that Sign of "Blessing oneself". To me this is nonsense as only God can bless.
So a further question can be asked. If a person of a non Christian religion or an Atheist were to make the Sign of the Cross, has it any power in such circumstances or does it only "work" for the believer?
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 11:13:33 GMT
Post by hollandr on Nov 1, 2006 11:13:33 GMT
>I have quite a few Crowley books including one called (from dim memory) Abramelin the ? .
Maat
My ex-wife always said she could tell if I had been reading Crowley because my energy was unpleasantly disturbed
As far as Abramelin, I spoke to William Bloom who published his experience of it (under the title "Diary of a Ceremonial Magician" if my memory serves) and he thought that the amount of effort required to produce the magic was much greater than the value of the result. But perhaps he would have become more skilled if he had practiced longer.
For myself, I am not drawn to the path of prayer but to the path of spiritual science. And my interest in the work of mages (magic) is really at the level of the landscape
Cheers
Russell
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 17:54:22 GMT
Post by sororaster93 on Nov 1, 2006 17:54:22 GMT
Another question - I have quite a few Crowley books including one called (from dim memory) Abramelin the ? . For some years they have been to the back of my largish library and I only recently wondered if I should keep them. I would be loath to put them back in a 2nd hand book shop, which is where I found them. I have opened them once or twice but they spook me a bit. Worth keeping? Maat Just a very quick reply as I am very busy today - I'll get back to others tomm. Its not a Crowley book in fact. But I believe it is part of the AA reading list which shows its importance. (This is one to be 'afraid' of though if your not already rather advanced) I think this book is another truly amazing read. I don't think the operation is very applicable to modern day living, but it's certainly a book to be kept and in my opinion, cherished. Keep it!
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 18:23:25 GMT
Post by taylorsman on Nov 1, 2006 18:23:25 GMT
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 19:06:41 GMT
Post by matt on Nov 1, 2006 19:06:41 GMT
Yes, banishing is tyling the lodge.
The pentagram ritual is a focus of will. It is will that does the banishing, not the gestures. Therefore the christian cross can be used if will is driving it. Just as sticking your thumbs in your ears while wiggling your fingers and sticking out your tongue will work to banish. Once your will is developed, there is no need for any of these rituals. Pure will alone is all you need.
This is why I say that this ritual is not dangerous. The gestures by themself mean nothing without will. This is an exercise to help you develope will, among other things.
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 20:25:14 GMT
Post by codywarren93 on Nov 1, 2006 20:25:14 GMT
Another question - I have quite a few Crowley books including one called (from dim memory) Abramelin the ? . For some years they have been to the back of my largish library and I only recently wondered if I should keep them. I would be loath to put them back in a 2nd hand book shop, which is where I found them. Maat, I personally would keep that book, but if you feel you will not use it, I will buy it from you. Rest assured it would be treasured.
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 22:55:31 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 22:55:31 GMT
... so if we are taught that the first thing we must do is to tyle our lodge (lodging place of the spirit) - then Masons must REALLY be DOING something and INTERACTING with something HIDDEN from sight. This is why we should persevere throughout our initiation so that we reach the point where the Soul asks that our sight (for hidden things) is 'restored'. Restored is an interesting choice of words... "Yes, banishing is tyling the lodge ... Once your will is developed, there is no need for any of these rituals. Pure will alone is all you need... the gestures by themself mean nothing without will...." ...which is why the Tyler really should be a PM?! Sorry guys - I did know the answer to the tyling question. I do feel safe working the magic of Masonry, which is progressive and sure. SLOWLY, SLOWLY... Maat
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 23:21:05 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 23:21:05 GMT
Hi Steve - re the sign of the cross. Knew it was pretty potent How about: from Heaven to Earth, and from the Centre.. from Mind to Heart, and from the Centre.. or as Masons say from East to West, from... ..you can make a cube from a cross.. Thanks for the links, very interesting ... I'll wait for my Angel to make the first move ;D Maat
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LBRP
Nov 1, 2006 23:34:56 GMT
Post by maat on Nov 1, 2006 23:34:56 GMT
RE: Books Got the steps out last night and sought out the books mentioned above. Found Crowley's 777 and the Law is for All. The Abramelin the Mage book was by Mathers, and also come across Regardie's book The Golden Dawn. Have not read any of them. (splutter, splutter, cough, cough - made mental not - MUST DUST!) I think I will seek out The Middle Pillar as suggested. (I like middlepillar Mind you I am still battling my way thru Alchemy.. I am persevering. Thought: why do we put ourselves through all these trials, when all you need is Love? Maat
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LBRP
Nov 2, 2006 0:31:14 GMT
Post by hollandr on Nov 2, 2006 0:31:14 GMT
>why do we put ourselves through all these trials, when all you need is Love?
In one sense that is true - the sense that relationship is the primary goal of the second incarnation of the Solar Logos.
But the economy of the solar system is built upon the efforts of the previous (3rd force) incarnation.
And we are expected to have mastered therefore, intelligent activity
Cheers
Russell
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