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Post by ariel on Nov 18, 2006 3:00:08 GMT
Does our future (in the spiritial sense) depend on our past and our present ? I suppose it means different things to different beliefs. However one common factor is: progression. We are all seekers, but what does that say about our need to enhance ourselves spiritually in order to reach a certain goal and what is that goal ? I have placed my question here simply because the Kabbalah has a very simplistic answer to the overall view of Time and I am not very comfortable with it ! If contributers can explain what, to them, time means in a human beings life without necessarily depending on just the Kabbalistic view, I would greatly appreciate the discussion.
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Post by Liberty on Nov 18, 2006 3:23:41 GMT
It would seem that if we are seekers toward spiritual enhancement the goal should perhaps be just that to diligently seek . Afterall no matter what we think the "goal" is we may not really know it until we have traveled (progressed) in many "forgien lands" Remember:
"It's not the destination but the trip" -Jerry Garcia
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Nov 18, 2006 4:18:28 GMT
Our future is a product of our present and past. But what *is* our present and past?
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Post by hollandr on Nov 18, 2006 6:21:21 GMT
While we normally experience time as a sequence, that may not be a very accurate concept.
For example, time may only exist on the lower planes (rungs of Jacob's Ladder)
Cheers
Russell
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Nov 18, 2006 11:12:52 GMT
Fascinating topic, this concept of time... and frankly, I do not understand how 'Kabbalah has a very simplistic answer to the overall view of Time' - I would have thought the contrary was the case, in that not only does it have various views of time, but also has a long tradition of discussing its various aspects and the seeming philosophical paradoxes that result. Perhaps one place to look at some of these is this commentary on the Lubavitcher Rebbe's letter extracts in relation to time. Another source is one I have not as yet read, but to which I have seen various extremely positive references: Elliot R. Wolfson's recent book Alef, Mem, Tau: Kabbalistic Musings on Time, Truth, and Death. In terms of the general question about whether our (spiritual) future depend on our past and present, I would suggest that it also, and importantly, depends on our future! This may sound trivial, but actually also mean it in what aristotelians look at as 'final' cause: the future drawing the present towards itself. Time, then, may be considered either as a means of measure, a container that allows change, and the bearer of (spiritual) impulses that are to germinate and unfold.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Nov 18, 2006 16:16:58 GMT
Very cool link to the letter JMD!! I've got something cool (yet again. I love it here ;D ) to study.
It also reminds me of a question on one of my Physics exams back in college.
Q. What is time? A. The medium thru which we observe change
And - as if to prove that, when I study anything, I'm actually studying a unified, single thing - it would seem my Physics studies actually were esoteric in nature. Sweet!!
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Post by ariel on Nov 18, 2006 17:34:14 GMT
It depends how observant the individual is ! Some people just refuse to see the simplest changes around them (the Seasons) let alone make an effort to understand their own spiritiual changes.
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Post by hollandr on Nov 19, 2006 1:56:57 GMT
I do not claim to have any particular insight into time but here are some odd thoughts:
- Physical things are limited in time and space - emotional energies are limited in space but not time (easily tested by visiting old buildings) - mental energies are not limited in space or time (easily tested by remote viewing) - intuitional energies are not limited by space, time or galactic envelope (tested by climbing the plumbline - if you can find one - try a large collection of beehives)
- time travel technology seems to have been developed out of the Philadelphia Experiment with the immediate endpoint at Montauk - there are various videos on the web by survivors and their descendents
and lastly
- the process of unfoldment of a seed to a adult entity and to death comprises an energy web that stretches across time with 2 way traffic - so that the act of old age impacts the youth of that entity. In other words, in a non-time sense the whole unfoldment process is simultaneously in existence
Cheers
Russell
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Post by Liberty on Nov 19, 2006 17:36:50 GMT
I don't know if this is a tangent or has anything to do with esoteric time but it does concern time as experienced by human beings.
Some years ago I was had just taken my first sip of coffee outside of a cafe when I looked up and saw the precise moment a city bus clipped the back of a bicylce being peddled by a young woman(early 20's). She flew into the air and landed head first (wearing no helmet) and was sadly killed.
She had been racing across an intersection and almost made it. A few seconds (maybe even a second) would have made all the difference. Perhaps her decison to "beat" the bus across the intersection was made in a split second.
I pondered this disturbing incident at the time. Her foolish decsion cetainly didn't deserve death and the timing of it all bothered me.
Some years before this when I was 18 years old I was walking a city sidewalk and a van sped tightly around a corner I could tell it was going to hit me and I tried to move in and away but a friend of mine was standing next to me and I could not do so.
It happened so fast, a moment in time, but I was thinking "gulp, this is going to hit me" the van's passenger side mirror hit me hard on the shoulder and spun me around knocking me to the pavement. The bum kept going and my friends "freaked out" but I got up without a scratch or even a bruise. A foot over , maybe inches, and the case could have been different.
These two incidents all happened in seconds do they illustrate anything spiritual or progressive? In the case of the young woman she didn't get the opportunity to learn from her mistake. In my case it really didn't cause me any deep reflection at the time. I continued on with my evening looking for a good time.
A friend of mind describes "Grace" as recieving something good that you neither asked for nor may really deserve. I got a break but the young woman didn't. I remember checking into who she was and finding out that she was a art student now no one will ever see what she may have matured into and created.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Did I recieve a "Grace" or was it all an "accident" of time. A matter of seconds and positioning ?
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 19, 2006 18:38:13 GMT
I have often thought about this too, Liberty.
Any event has the following coordinates. The usual three of X, Y and Z give the physical position , but there is also its point in time. Take for example the events of 9/11 at the WTC. A person could have been there on 8th Sept at the identical location but have been 24 hours before the aircraft were crashed into the buildings resulting in about 3000 deaths. They could not of course have been there 24 hours later as the physical location had been totally altered.
I have to ride my bicycle across a road where cars come down at a fast speed and have often thought that were I a second or two out in my timing I could also be hit by the car and severely injured or killed.
I also sometimes ponder on what happened at a location at a different time. For example I am typing this in the main room of my flat in Reading. I have lived in that flat for just over 10 years now but these flats have been in existance some 18 years. Before that there were a collection of small workshops and before that a large garage and its showrooms and workshops. I wonder what occured at this location and know that I walked past this place many times in the past never giving any thought to the fact that I would in the future call this location home.
As to why the girl on the bike was that split second out and was killed or why the vehicle which mounted the pavement missed yourself I cannot tell. I can only think that the unfortunate girl's time was up and your's has still to run.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 19, 2006 19:08:21 GMT
I have often thought about this too, Liberty. Any event has the following coordinates. The usual three of X, Y and Z give the physical position , but there is also its point in time. Take for example the events of 9/11 at the WTC. A person could have been there on 8th Sept at the identical location but have been 24 hours before the aircraft were crashed into the buildings resulting in about 3000 deaths. They could not of course have been there 24 hours later as the physical location had been totally altered. I have to ride my bicycle across a road where cars come down at a fast speed and have often thought that were I a second or two out in my timing I could also be hit by the car and severely injured or killed. I also sometimes ponder on what happened at a location at a different time. For example I am typing this in the main room of my flat in Reading. I have lived in that flat for just over 10 years now but these flats have been in existance some 18 years. Before that there were a collection of small workshops and before that a large garage and its showrooms and workshops. I wonder what occured at this location and know that I walked past this place many times in the past never giving any thought to the fact that I would in the future call this location home. As to why the girl on the bike was that split second out and was killed or why the vehicle which mounted the pavement missed yourself I cannot tell. I can only think that the unfortunate girl's time was up and your's has still to run. FATE OR DESTINY ? a pre arranged event and time ? When the GAOTU calls us then we will ascend to those immortal mansions from whence all goodness emanates.for where the name of GOD is invoked we trust no danger will ensue
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Post by kizzy on Nov 19, 2006 19:38:59 GMT
Bro Lee, I hope you are right in your prognosis. I remember the words of Bro Robert Burns in his poem "To a Mouse"
"Oh moosie thou are blest o'er me, the present only touches thee whilst backwards I can cast my ee on prospects drear And forwards, though I canna see, I think and fear"
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Post by Liberty on Nov 19, 2006 19:39:48 GMT
Steve Foley wrote: I also sometimes ponder on what happened at a location at a different time. For example I am typing this in the main room of my flat in Reading. I have lived in that flat for just over 10 years now but these flats have been in existance some 18 years. Before that there were a collection of small workshops and before that a large garage and its showrooms and workshops. I wonder what occured at this location and know that I walked past this place many times in the past never giving any thought to the fact that I would in the future call this location home.
Steve,
I ponder locations and places too. Sometimes I'll walk down a street and imagine what it looked like in say the 1940's. Many structures would be the same but the cars and clothing of passersby would be different but it wouldn't be in "black & white" like a movie but just as bright and colorful as today.
The other day Bro. Gio mentioned Leonardo Davinci and later that night I was in bed drifting off to sleep but was contemplating Davinci as the person he actually was walking down a street ,in his world, and doing day to day things like eating and for a split second felt I reached across time. It was my imagination but does anyone else have these "time bending" experiences?
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 19, 2006 19:48:36 GMT
Time
"And you run and you run to catch up with the Sun but its sinking, racing around to come up behind you again.
The Sun is the same in a relative way but your'e older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death."
(Pink Floyd)
Ariel
This guy was too busy to notice anything! Or maybe not?
I have enjoyed this thread and although Liberty has produced a 'different' topic I also thank you!
Your story made me sigh and made me think of the simp,est word in our language; If!
We could end up anywhere on this thread! Even out of breath!
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Post by ariel on Nov 20, 2006 1:37:53 GMT
But what if..... We shall never know or maybe we are not meant to know ! That does sound fatalistic. Kind regards, Ariel
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Post by maat on Nov 20, 2006 2:40:23 GMT
Don't understand it - but know that it is true ... time is different elsewhere.
As related previously on this Forum - I awoke once many years ago with the feeling that my stomach had fallen through to the very centre of the earth ... I was emotionally hollow and overwhelmed with a depression so dark I could hardly breath.
I only ever felt this state once more... two weeks later when my younger sister was killed in a pedestrian crossing going to work. She was just 18.
I have often pondered whether on another unconscious level I had been made aware of, and was being prepared for, what was going to happen.
Also previously - I related how nearly 20 years later my two+ year old daughter responded when I addressed her by her name.
"Don't call me B......, call me by my real name"
What is your real name says I (thinking she may be Mickey Mouse today)
"My name is J...., and I died" - she stated emphatically, almost proudly one could say(?!).
"How did you die?" I enquired, scarcely breathing
"By a car".
I hasten to add that because of the time between events we had not discussed my sister's demise in years, let alone in front of a toddler.
I have since had other instances which reinforce my belief in reincarnation and indicate that most things happen when they are destined to.
Maat
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Post by willied77 on Jan 1, 2008 2:52:52 GMT
We can choose which body we take before we are born. This is done under the guidance of our guardian angel.. (The Egyptian Book of the Dead, explains it all).
However, most of us remember nothing of a previous life, BUT there are certain characteristics which we show.
I.E If I was a heavy smoker in a previous life, I could have problems with my throat or mouth in this one, even thought I've never smoked at all.
Willied
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