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Post by sammy on Feb 6, 2014 23:30:04 GMT
The painter had the choice, but no choice at all. What filled the painter with inspiration and drive for the painting was his thoughts at that moment. If the painter had to repeat this canvas filled with those exact same thoughts and motivations, you would have identical pictures. Perhaps minor differences if at different times (natural disturbances like wind, earthquakes, etc...). We would still make the same decisions, of our will, against our control. This would be different for each of us as we have separate points of view, giving us individuality. Love this! I agree that it is inspiration that gives no choice. Once we become inspired, our path is set and all other paths fall away. I, for the most part, never have the same inspiration twice but I can see where it could happen in theory. Then again the Taoist say, “You can never step into the same river twice.” Meaning that a river is never static. It is always flowing and changing from moment to moment. Thank you for saying so! The Tao are correct. I believe it would be impossible to have the exact same inspiration as it would require the exact same time and space to create, or rather the same life. I just use it as an example because it cant happen, time will always keep ticking and we cannot share the exact same space.
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Post by beejay on Feb 7, 2014 1:22:56 GMT
...they were more inspired to fish then to raise the family is all. ... Fish farmers are a small subset of those that fish. Raising fish properly is a 24/7/365 task. I wonder how much free will is really involved in choosing that. The more esoteric level of the issue is the presence of the fish people in important legends such as the fish(er) king of the grail legends and the amphibious annedotus Oannes that reputedly taught the Greeks all that civilised them, Vishnu who was half fish half man, and Jesus symbolised by a fish. Are fish farmers drawn into something more profound that captures them? The same may be asked of some other occupations.
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Post by nventr on Feb 7, 2014 17:06:54 GMT
The Fish is a symbol for the inner sanctum. Anyone in ancient myth or parable who was called a fisherman was a mystic or one who probes the inner depths of the psyche.
Understanding one’s self is the greatest civilizer in the world.
When we are aware of how we hurt others, how our selfishness effects the world, then we we can move to change our actions and attitudes.
You are welcome to visit my website to see the blueprint of the inner psyche. The address is on my profile page.
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Post by peter2 on Feb 8, 2014 0:06:23 GMT
The Fish is a symbol for the inner sanctum. You have a good site. So why is the fish a symbol for the inner sanctum?
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 8, 2014 14:34:22 GMT
The Fish is a symbol for the inner sanctum. Anyone in ancient myth or parable who was called a fisherman was a mystic or one who probes the inner depths of the psyche. The Vesica piscis: The intersection of two domains (you appear to allude to this on your site). It was the underlying symbol of Gothic Arcitecture.
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Post by nventr on Feb 8, 2014 17:57:56 GMT
The Fish is a symbol for the inner sanctum. Anyone in ancient myth or parable who was called a fisherman was a mystic or one who probes the inner depths of the psyche. The Vesica piscis: The intersection of two domains (you appear to allude to this on your site). It was the underlying symbol of Gothic Arcitecture. I fully agree with your words, Tamrin. Yes, the intersection of the inner masculine and inner feminine is the inner sacrum. I have issue with the attached picture. The “Fish” is shown as only with it’s tail down. The ^ that creates the “tail” is like a primitive trail marker showing the direction of the energy movement of the spiritual journey. This is the right-hand path that is known as: The Way of Passion, The Warrior’s Path, The Hero’s Journey, The Way of the King. This path was/is meant for those persons who possess an intellectual or logical personality. A more complete illustration would also show “the tail” on the top as well. The “tail” on the top would look like a ‘v.’ Again it is a trail marker show the direction of the energy movement of the spiritual journey. This is the left-hand path that is known as: The Way of Grace, The Virgin’s Path, The Grail path, The Way of the Maiden. This path was/is meant for those persons who possess a creative or emotional nature. When both paths are represented, it is possible to see the zodiac symbol of Pisces, which is the fish that swims in both directions.
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Post by crossbow on Feb 14, 2014 12:23:50 GMT
It seems this matter of freewill is harder for most of us westerners to comprehend today than it was one hundred years ago when we had more consciously Christian or "God fearing" societies.
The freewill debate today is about whether we have freewill from circumstance, be that circumstance environmental or biological. One hundred years ago and before, we understood that freewill was our freedom from God, freedom to do wrong, to sin, and freewill carried with it responsibility (before and during its exercising) and accountability (after its exercising).
Then came Darwinism, the world wars with their social upheaval, post-modernism, Freud with his catchy idea that conscience was familial-social construction, and within a generation or two freewill became a vague and barely comprehensible notion.
If however, we accept that conscience is not a personal construction of adopted family and social values, but a real and actual organ within our soul, something like a skylight at the inner upper pinnacle of our being, which if we heed it, can tell us what is most good and right to do within our circumstances, but of which we are free to ignore it if we will and do whatever we like, then we see that freewill is not only freedom to choose from one option or another, but more significantly and prior to that choice of options, freewill is freedom to obey or disobey our own conscience.
Conscience being the highest sense within our self of what is good and right to do (by others and those around us), and freewill being the ability to either follow our conscience or not.
If however, we do not accept the presence of a conscience in this sense, then freewill at best is just a little horizontal flexibility within our circumstances, with no perceived vertical dimension to it.
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Post by peter2 on Feb 14, 2014 20:52:35 GMT
Well put. I wonder how much practice is required to be sensitive to conscience.
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Post by crossbow on Feb 15, 2014 15:54:56 GMT
Hello Peter.
There is a saying, practice makes perfect. I would add, only if the practice is perfect practice, for imperfect practice makes imperfect.
Begin when you have choices to make by weighing up the options, two at a time, and sensing conscience approval of one over the other. Then follow through on the selected option, living it out, so as with repetition to gradually create a well worn channel from conscience at the inner upper pinnacle down to the forefront of mind and to externalised speaking and actions. It must be externalised, lived out, or there will be no flow through. No more than a tap not turned on can expect water to flow through the pipe from the water tank.
Identify the conscience, it is within consciousness, back, within and up, note its location, ponder and sense its qualities, differentiate between what conscience is and what its not, note its identity markers, take bearings, note landmarks.
All the while, whenever you weigh options, whenever you sense conscience preferred option, follow it, so as to be living it out and creating a down flow of energy, a communication line from conscience to conscious living and interacting with others.
And gradually you will become more conscious of the will of conscience, and of your freewill which is your driver's seat consciousness. And between these two parts there will be increased awareness and clearer communication.
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Post by peter2 on Feb 15, 2014 22:01:03 GMT
Identify the conscience, it is within consciousness, back, within and up, note its location, ponder and sense its qualities, differentiate between what conscience is and what its not, note its identity markers, take bearings, note landmarks. You are covering a lot of material (spirit?) here. So do you identify the conscience with the pineal gland? What about the metaphysical 3rd eye ? Putting attention to particular centers in the body certainly activates the energies there. And a habit of putting attention there will increase the awareness of when one is acting from the energies of those places. This is reflected in Masonic stances and signs. So would you like to say what sort of markers you detect, and how you experience the landmarks ?
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Post by crossbow on Feb 16, 2014 3:22:32 GMT
There are many landmarks and reference points. Everything and every place has reference to everything else, a relationship to it, an angle, a difference, a contrast, a bearing. This is true throughout creation and within our self.
Our internal landscape takes a little time and effort to adjust our senses to. We need to go there frequently, even keep a regular watch there, and gradually we will "get our eye in" so to speak, become perceptive, first to its greater distinctions and then to its subtleties. After a while we will come to know our way around our interior like we know our way around our house.
Begin by noticing your layers, segments, and component parts. Start with the most obvious parts, such as the body and its senses and actions, and then notice the emotions and feelings, and then notice the mind and its thoughts, and then notice the conscious occupant at the core, the self. Distinguish between these layers, these component parts, until you are aware of their differences like chalk and cheese.
Study the relationship of these parts to one another, particularly the direction of drive, or the power train, that is the direction of flow of motive force from internal power source, through the component parts to externalisation as speech and action.
But most of all study the core consciousness, the central self. Conscience is within here, in the centre, then upward.
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Post by peter2 on Feb 16, 2014 7:57:46 GMT
The typical human has a range of factors that mitigate against this process, so do you propose some techniques to make the process more efficient - that dodges the interference?
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Post by crossbow on Feb 16, 2014 14:21:06 GMT
First, be aware of your surroundings.
That means practice being aware/observing of your environment. After a while add to that, being aware of what you are doing and saying. Then add to that, being aware of what you are feeling. Then add, being aware of what you are thinking. There's no great effort, just practicing observance, steadily and over time. When the practice of observance has become strong, the rest will build easier upon it.
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Post by sammy on Feb 19, 2014 22:35:15 GMT
The typical human has a range of factors that mitigate against this process, so do you propose some techniques to make the process more efficient - that dodges the interference? This was my personal motives for the theory (-0+). A way to reduce clutter and clearly see the path between. I have tried to keep it equal to the social motives for others to connect/use for the same purposes. However the translation was more difficult then I imagined.
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Post by sammy on Feb 19, 2014 22:37:22 GMT
Very fun posts crossbow! I enjoyed them much!
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Post by crossbow on Feb 20, 2014 13:59:41 GMT
Very fun posts crossbow! I enjoyed them much! Thank you Sammy.
What is (-0+)? Is it something that has been discussed elsewhere on the forum? If so can you provide a link?
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Post by crossbow on Feb 20, 2014 22:37:08 GMT
PS. Sammy, I just found the thread.
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Post by sammy on Feb 21, 2014 4:48:46 GMT
PS. Sammy, I just found the thread. Oh good! So sorry! I have been caught up in a political debate forum... *sigh* It doesn't take long to get burned out HAHA.
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Post by peter2 on Feb 23, 2014 4:50:44 GMT
I have been caught up in a political debate forum. Discrimination is a wonderful practice.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 23, 2014 7:31:53 GMT
Discrimination is a wonderful practice. Indeed, rational discrimination (viveka) is said by some to be the first step on the path of wisdom, enabling one to distinguish between the real and the unreal.
Sadly, too many people now associate the term "discrimination" with irrational and unwarranted bigotry and prejudice.
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