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hello
Oct 15, 2005 15:47:46 GMT
Post by username on Oct 15, 2005 15:47:46 GMT
Hello
I am not freemason But i have been study about masonic not long time . I dont care about regularly or clandestine / man or woman / fake or not fake
My country have regularly lodge But so regret no have co-freemason in my country
However i agree and accept that woman should to become freemason equal man because this is 2000 centuly!!
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hello
Oct 15, 2005 18:40:02 GMT
Post by therondunn on Oct 15, 2005 18:40:02 GMT
So, if I understand you correctly, you feel that women should be masons... if so, why?
Masonry is what it is, a FRATERNITY. Men learn different things from men than from women, in different ways. I have no problem with women, what I do have a problem with is women striving to destroy anything that stands for mens association by attempting to force their way into that association.
If masonry accepted women, it would NOT be masonry, it would be the Lions or Kiwanis, or Oddfellows, or Elks, but it would NOT be masonry. If I had wanted to learn or work in a mixed group, I would have joined one of those "orders". I chose, clearly and openly, to join an ancient FRATERNITY.
This world is over feminized enough, I just do not see a need for women members.
As for regularity or clandestine, I do not care if women want to dress up and play at being masons, they are hurting no one, and if they derive satisfaction or benefit from it, so be it. I will do nothing to injure them, and will, within reason, treat them as masons, but I will NOT visit their lodges nor allow their intervisitation with my lodge as they are NOT masons...
So, tell me why you think that our ancient fraternity should change what has worked for hundreds of years?
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hello
Oct 15, 2005 19:35:21 GMT
Post by taylorsman on Oct 15, 2005 19:35:21 GMT
In this Bro Theron we must beg to differ. I too belong to a Male only Masonic Body UGLE, but I personally have no problem with them. As an Individual I recognise them as other Freemasons be they Lady Masons of either of the two main bodies thereof, or if they are Co-Masons of LDH or other such Organisation.
Of course I cannot attend their Lodges nor they mine. I have sworn as much , those are the Rules of UGLE and the GLs with which it is in Amity and I do not break those Rules to which I have sworn on Oath unless and until such Rules are rescinded and I am thereby released from my Oath.
One day those Rules may change, once upon a time a Disabled man = "A Cripple" , or one born of slavery = many Blacks, would have been barred, now we do not have those attitudes.
So I have a far less negative attitude to Female Masons who to me ARE Freemasons like me but "Separted Brethren"
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hello
Oct 15, 2005 20:34:15 GMT
Post by therondunn on Oct 15, 2005 20:34:15 GMT
Ok... it does not matter to me as long as they do not belong to a lodge of real masons, and the only lodge of real masons is one the follows the ancient landmarks and remains a fraternity.
In recent times, legal action would have been taken to force these folks playing at being masons to cease and desist. I think that is over the top, as they harm no one in acting like masons (heck, I know some MEN that act like masons and aren't) I just do not see why I should even be asked to accept women as masons.
Either way, as long as they are not admitted into real masonic lodges, I really don't care what they do as long as they bring no shame on our ancient and honorable FRATERNITY.
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hello
Oct 15, 2005 20:51:26 GMT
Post by taylorsman on Oct 15, 2005 20:51:26 GMT
Like I say, Theron, we will beg to differ on this and I can think of some women who are far better Masons than some Male "Regulars" I know , a couple of the latter holding a goodly rank.
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phil
Member
Just me all at sea
Posts: 209
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hello
Oct 15, 2005 21:11:00 GMT
Post by phil on Oct 15, 2005 21:11:00 GMT
Those that hold a goodly rank are not necessarily goodly Freemasons.
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hello
Oct 15, 2005 23:58:44 GMT
Post by therondunn on Oct 15, 2005 23:58:44 GMT
Good point, Br. Phil... Taylorsman, I understand your point, but would note that if masonry were to admit women, it would destroy what masonry is, and I would leave it before the ink were dry on the declaration and go to another grand lodge that keeps the ancient traditions.
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hello
Oct 16, 2005 7:04:14 GMT
Post by username on Oct 16, 2005 7:04:14 GMT
hello
Dont worried It just the opinion of a one non- freemason ? My country dont have female or co- freemason Now i have keep in touch with someone in regularly masonic lodge Eventually i will join masonic lodge in the future
Why woman should to become freemason equal man ? my opinion is this is 20 century we maybe change in the future like rotary lion We can chang for improve /development and grow
Ok well Dont serious this is just the opinion of a one non - freemason Maybe in the future when i know more about masonic I maybe change my mind
By the way any clandestine freemason in this forum please help me < non freemason> for answer regularly freemason Why woman should to become freemason ?
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hello
Oct 16, 2005 7:13:10 GMT
Post by therondunn on Oct 16, 2005 7:13:10 GMT
Its not a problem, my freind. This is an ongoing discussion among some of the brothers, and there is no animosity between us, any of us... just different points of view.
What country are you from, or would you prefer not to say? Its clear English isn't your first language, though that is not a problem either. And just because you are not a mason does not mean your opinion isn't interesting and valuable as well.
Don't let our discussion throw you off.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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hello
Oct 16, 2005 7:42:35 GMT
Post by giovanni on Oct 16, 2005 7:42:35 GMT
I have nothing against women "mason", if they join together in a female only order. I dispute that it is possible that men and women work together in a masonic way. Username, please clic here: mastersjewel.com/masons/symbols/women.htm
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hello
Oct 17, 2005 0:36:32 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 17, 2005 0:36:32 GMT
Dear New Member This woman Mason welcomes you with open arms. You obviously have a bright and open mind. As Masonry is really a 'mind' thing I find it quite surprising how often body parts seem to get in the way If you are happy to disclose your country of origin I will be happy to find out if LDH is somewhere nearby. We are in over 60 countries... or is it nearly 70? How many countries have UGLE I wonder - serious question for anyone reading. Once again - Welcome - I hope you enjoy this Forum as much as we do. Cheers Maat
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hello
Oct 24, 2005 0:11:05 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 24, 2005 0:11:05 GMT
For my good buddies Giovanni and Eric “I still can’t understand why it’s so easy for a woman to get excommunicated in Italy! All the time people seemed to be saying: “No, you mustn’t go here, you mustn’t go there; you’ll be excommunicated. There’s no respect for poor, wretched women anywhere. And yet you’ll find the love of God much commoner among women than men, and the women at the Crucifixion showed much more courage than the Apostles, exposing themselves to insult and wiping our Lord’s face.” - St Therese de Lisieux. The Wisdom of the Saints. Jill Haak Adels. Oxford University Press 1987 (Saint Therese was the most popular saint of the early twentieth century and is often referred to as “the Little Flower”. She described her spiritual practice as “the little way”. It was the way of humility, of small, ordinary deeds sanctified by being performed in a spirit of total love and trust in God. She is co-patroness of missions with Francis of Assisi, and of the French nation, with Joan of Arc. Her ‘way’ would sound familiar to Freemasons.)
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hello
Oct 24, 2005 4:45:34 GMT
Post by therondunn on Oct 24, 2005 4:45:34 GMT
Maat, the issue of Christianity is not comparable to masonry, since masonry is a) not solely christian, b) is not a religion.
I just do not see why women insist of being "masons". Since masonry is a fraternity, established and run by men for the benefit of men in society, why must women insist on joining, or try to insist on it? I have no problem with women seeking to be better women, but there are so many avenues open to them for that purpose, why must women insist on forcing their way into a group that is established for men?
It just doesn't make sense, for masonry as it exists is doing so much demonstrable good for and in society as it is currently established, it seems contrary and negative to the purpose of masonry...
Women do much good in the world, as is demonstrated above, however, concepts like the above, which seem to be implying that men or women are defacto better than each other or more holy by virtue of their plumbing seems to prove that there is no good that can come from women joining freemasonry... my point has been that men and women work better on some issues separately, and therefore each become better people... separately working toward that goal.
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hello
Oct 24, 2005 5:35:57 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 24, 2005 5:35:57 GMT
Hi Theron - You are quite right about the christianity and the religion bit - the afore-post from me was just a quote from a book that I was browsing through on the weekend. I am a wicked woman sometimes and like to tease my mysogynist mates Gio and Eric, we all quite like each other really. I can add you to my tease list if you like... You might find that Christianity creeps into chats here from time to time for no other reason than it seems to be the preferred text in UGLE Lodges. Some French Lodges do not have a VSL at all because its abuse by the clerics in days of yore..(some were not very Christian and used it as a power tool - its quite a heavy book to be hit over the head with). The Bible and other texts held sacred are very valuable to Masons who really are searching... they all hold keys which may light the way for us, hence their esteemed position in open lodge. If it makes you happy - I promise not to join you Lodge.... I am quite happy with the one I am in. I look forward to many conversations with you ... and we will avoid the subjects we agree to disagree on. I am sure we have lots in common that will benefit us both. Maat PS: As nobody is quite sure when and where Masonry originated how can you be so sure that women were not involved...? Ooops - sorry - I told myself not to do that. Bad Maat
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