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Post by a on Oct 22, 2005 20:25:56 GMT
Bear with me on this one.
I am NOT trying to recruit/set up an order/take students etc.
I AM trying towork out, after the recent comments by Seb, and MrMason, whether the inner beauty of Freemasonry is an aspect that more people would like to discover.
I understand that currently how practical/ theretical/ non existant this is will depend on your own Lodge, but regardless, I am curious how many of you are interested in taking further steps forward. Those in Lodges that are currently active in this regard clearly need not reply, even though they would I imagine opt for the yes answers.
If a lot of you do want to explore this, then that would be a good message to the relevant Grand Lodges to help them find ways of reinvigourating.
And I do stress this is something that is best done with like minded people. Lodges being ideal places. I am NOT recruiting.
But as a number of Freemasons have expressed a desire for me to teach from within the Masonic system, I am curious whether the knowledge that I have obtained would be of interest to a wider spectrum of Freemasons.
So if it were available to you would you be interested in further support and guidance to help you take further steps towards personal illumination - in practical as opposed to theoretical learning, using the very tools of Freemasonry that you handle every time that you are in Lodge?
I Dare because I Care. The inner light of Freemasonry needs to be strengthened.
But don't panic I will not be upset if you all say no, for I am not trying to sell myself here, I am merely curious.
And for those that I have helped privately, don't panic I will still be around doing what I do.
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Post by hollandr on Oct 22, 2005 21:45:00 GMT
Stewart
My experience of teaching inside Masonry is that there is always ambivalence. Some in the lodge think it a nonsense, some are interested but cautious. Others think it is wonderful - but then those don't really practice much.
In other circumtances I look for people who are desperate. Normally only the desperate will practice the techniques.
And desperation can take 2 forms. One is desperation from personal spiritual and psychological problems. The other is desperation from being driven from on high to perform tasks but not knowing what or how.
But I did have a good response when I gave a short talk on the nature of the beehive and demonstrated therein that the plumbline and the sun at its meridian are the one symbol. One of those present felt driven (his word) to set up a website to preserve such material. But that means of course that I will have to write the talk when it was given just orally.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Oct 22, 2005 23:08:45 GMT
Bro Russell, you choose a good symbol in the Beehive. I have always regarded it as relating to the Industry of the Bee and the willingness of that creature to sacrifice itself for its colony. To me it is no accident that it is on the Collar of a Lodge Officer or PM, although there are those who prefer a mundane explanation for this ornament. I know which I believe!
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Post by hollandr on Oct 22, 2005 23:59:41 GMT
Taylorsman
The beehive is indeed a profound symbol but I suggest it is not about diligence
For example the hive is run by a queen and all the workers are female. The males do no work and at the end of the breeding season have their wings cut off and are pushed out as food for the ants.
This hardly seems to encourage male lodges to be diligent
Cheers
Russell
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Post by a on Oct 23, 2005 8:46:59 GMT
Russell My experience of teaching inside Masonry is that there is always ambivalence. Some in the lodge think it a nonsense, some are interested but cautious. Others think it is wonderful - but then those don't really practice much. I do have an insight into this situation. It just amazes me how ambivalent so many Master Craftsmen appear to be about their working tools. Bit of a gap there for many I think. Those that are interest but cautious interest me, for being cautious is very important. That is interesting, for I am not really looking for people. I am just doing what I do. People will either be interested in what I have to say and do, or won't be. Which is why I have quietly laughed to myself when I used to get those emails from UGLE Freemasons (always I think from memory UGLE Freemasons) telling me that I was a false prophet etc. Which with all things regaining balance is a solutionOr possibly frustration at not knowing what or how and/or trouble in believing. But again as with all things once you develop the eyes to see the answers come and they are staring straight at you. Perhaps he should wait until he is ready to write the speech himself. He may grow more from that, though it could take a while.
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Oct 23, 2005 9:23:05 GMT
Taylorsman The beehive is indeed a profound symbol but I suggest it is not about diligence For example the hive is run by a queen and all the workers are female. The males do no work and at the end of the breeding season have their wings cut off and are pushed out as food for the ants. This hardly seems to encourage male lodges to be diligent Cheers Russell And the queen bees in some lodges are the DC and the secretary ;D ;D
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Oct 23, 2005 9:27:44 GMT
Bro Russell, you choose a good symbol in the Beehive. I have always regarded it as relating to the Industry of the Bee and the willingness of that creature to sacrifice itself for its colony. To me it is no accident that it is on the Collar of a Lodge Officer or PM, although there are those who prefer a mundane explanation for this ornament. I know which I believe! I never realised that this was on the collar.Thanks
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Post by Siontific on Oct 23, 2005 9:35:16 GMT
I think it is obvious that many Masons today do not understand the symbols that surround them and also do not know where to look to get the answers even if they realise that there are questions to ask.
There is too little emphasis on masonic education and understanding. But it does need to be presented in a way that appeals to those with a small interest. Not those who have, necessarily, a high spiritual or esoteric interest. Otherwise, you simply cater for the elitist among us.
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Post by a on Oct 23, 2005 16:19:39 GMT
I think it is obvious that many Masons today do not understand the symbols that surround them and also do not know where to look to get the answers even if they realise that there are questions to ask. This I would suggest, though stating the obvious, needs to be corrected sharpish. Otherwise the fraternities are failing their members. This is straightforward, the hardest bit will be stopping the ridiculing of those who want to follow the path and do the Work. This needs to be done here and now.
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phil
Member
Just me all at sea
Posts: 209
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Post by phil on Oct 23, 2005 17:00:57 GMT
But it does need to be presented in a way that appeals to those with a small interest. Not those who have, necessarily, a high spiritual or esoteric interest. Otherwise, you simply cater for the elitist among us. I fully agree with this statement. In our lodge, I present a workshop on symbolism, not necessarally designed to give all the cut-and-dried but to encourage the participants to share their opinions and ask even more questions about the symbols they would otherwise take for granted. I don't believe that any of us should even attempt to give the so called cut-and-dried answers, because the interpretation of symbols is, of necessity, very personal. All we should do, IMHO, is to point the "student" in the right direction and then give him a loving, but stimulating slap on the behind to make sure he takes the next steps towards his own enlightenment. To ensure that such workshops have a significant influence on the general culture of the lodge, instead of the elite or select individuals, they are presented to the majority of the members. Thus, they all acquire the same basic stimulus that enables them to grow even further together.
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Post by petertaylor on Oct 23, 2005 18:00:04 GMT
This is from our Lodge tritual.
The Beehive The beehive is an emblem of industry, and as such severely reproves idleness, which is the parent of immorality and ruin. As a result of industry the F…n enjoys the necessities, and even luxuries of life; and by diligence in labour of whatever kind merits the respect and esteem of men, and proves to the world that he is not a useless drone in the busy hive of nature, but rather is constant in his high endeavour to live up to the purpose for which he was created by an all-wise and all-powerful God
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Post by hollandr on Oct 23, 2005 22:11:13 GMT
Peter
In a real hive the males enjoy an idle lifestyle based on the industry of females.
Were the early masons actually forecasting equality of the sexes with their inverse interpretation of the hive?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Oct 24, 2005 1:55:28 GMT
Just have to reproduce this here - apologies to those that read it on the Research Lodge thread..
"In 1923, a scientist named von Frisch published his famous work on the dance of the bee. When a bee discovers a source of food, she fills herself with the nectar and returns to the hive. She then performs what has been termed a dance which symbolically describes where the (SPIRITUAL) food (LIFE) source is. From this symbolic ritual, the other bees can find the source. (THIS IS WHAT MASONRY IS TRYING TO DO FOR US - all inserts by Maat)
Reproduction is interesting. Not all bees have two parents. We have three classes: the queen, the female workers, and the male drones. The one special fertile female - the queen. There are other females but they do not produce any eggs. The male bees are produced by the queen's unfertilized eggs (in other words - no father). (THE SONS OF A WIDOW?) The females are produced when the queen has mated with a male - therefore she has two parents.
Interestingly, the family tree of a colony produces what we know as the Fibonacci sequence. A bee's ancestry fits the exact pattern. Draw out the example.
great- great,great gt,gt,gt
grand- grand- grand grand
Number of parents: parents: parents: parents: parents:
of a MALE bee: 1 2 3 5 8
of a FEMALE bee: 2 3 5 8 13
0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987 ..
As you may or may not know, the Fibonacci sequence is one of the major chords played by Nature in her symphony. Everywhere one looks there is the sequence displayed: view the construction of sunflowers, pinecones, pineapples, artichokes, apples, lemons, chiles, starfish, sand dollars, the iris, buttercup, daisies, and you could go on and on. (SACRED GEOMETRY)
It is the proportion of living things. One author gives this definition: "The Fibonacci sequence actually begins with two terms, zero and unity, nothing and everything, the Unknowable and the manifest Monad. These are the first two terms. Their sum, another unity, is the third term. To find each next term, just add the two latest terms together. This process produces the endless series 0,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144 … At first glance we see a chain of numbers. But look beyond the visible numbers to the self-accumulating process by which they grow. The series grows by accruing terms that come from within itself, from its immediate past, taking nothing from outside the sequence for its growth. Each term may be traced back to its beginning as unity in the Monad, which itself arose from the incomprehensible mystery of zero.
This principle of ongoing growth-from-within is the essence of the Pentad's principle of regeneration and the pulsing rhythms of natural growth and dissolution." (Michael Schneider, A Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe)
Sheer beautiful poetry. It gave me a buzz just reading it again.
Maat
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Post by a on Nov 1, 2005 20:43:44 GMT
The person who said that they wanted to take a step fprward but were wary/scared, I aplaud you. The four who definately want to take a further step, great, but I would recommend waryness. For as you know from my posts on the Lost thread you never can tell where unexpected issues can arise.
That all said, depending on the decisions that your powers that be make over the next few months, your hearts desires could well come true, for the possibility of real illumination is currently within the Masonic grasp.
And if masonry does not find the courage to step forward on its own journey, then you will find other tools to assist.
All that you have to do is knock at the door to yourself, listen, and take steps. Much easier said than done I know.
Each and every one of you has the potential to touch and feel the light, and shine it fourth in our world. Every last one of you. If you choose to, and are patient, and Work hard.
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Post by corab on Nov 1, 2005 21:21:06 GMT
Am right there with you, Stewart - humanity needs some guiding light; the Hermit comes to mind. Cheers, C.
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Post by gord on Dec 17, 2005 7:10:21 GMT
Bro Russell, you choose a good symbol in the Beehive. I have always regarded it as relating to the Industry of the Bee and the willingness of that creature to sacrifice itself for its colony. To me it is no accident that it is on the Collar of a Lodge Officer or PM, although there are those who prefer a mundane explanation for this ornament. I know which I believe! I never realised that this was on the collar.Thanks Gentlemen, Which juridiction is the beehive used in? It certainly isn't on any collars in British Columbia and we have four working rituals.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 17, 2005 7:59:41 GMT
Bro Divinator, it is on the Collars of Officers , PMs, Provincial and Grand Officers in English Craft Lodges, towards the bottom of the V just a above the clip to whch the Jewel or Emblem of the wearer's Office or Rank is attached. I'll try to find a picture on the web and post it if I can.
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Post by gord on Dec 17, 2005 8:01:52 GMT
Thank you
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phil
Member
Just me all at sea
Posts: 209
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Post by phil on Dec 17, 2005 10:54:38 GMT
Br:. Divinator,
You ask "Which juridiction is the beehive used in? It certainly isn't on any collars in British Columbia and we have four working rituals".
The only place where I ave seen the behive depicted is in a Lodge called The Blazing Star in Amersfoort which is a black american lodge under the constitution of Prince Hall.
On their banner (Used as a tracing board) are many of the old symbols that have gone out of use under many other constituitons. What a pitty!
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Post by billmcelligott on Dec 17, 2005 11:57:54 GMT
The Bee Hive As a Masonic symbol the Bee Hive receives very little attention in the Texas Masonic ritual though it is part of the Master Mason’s degree. The Bee Hive is one of the many symbols on the Master’s Carpet described in this degree. Unfortunately, it is part of the monitorial work and its explanation is rarely presented as part of the Master Mason’s lecture. No one knows when the Bee Hive entered the Masonic ritual as a symbol. However, the bee in Masonry is mentioned as early as 1724 in an expose printed in Ireland. In The Early Masonic Catechisms it is said, “A Bee has in all Ages and Nations been the Grand Hierogliphick of Masonry, because it excells all other living Creatures in the Contrivance and Commodiousness of its Habitation or Combe.” www.grandlodgeoftexas.org/beehive.phpfreemasonry.bcy.ca/symbolism/bees.html
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