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Post by Siontific on May 2, 2005 19:04:35 GMT
How about a hung Parliament: Tory/Lib Dem. Now that would be fun !
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Post by taylorsman on May 2, 2005 19:34:13 GMT
Michael Howard might settle for that , but would Charlie Kennedy? I don't think so and the price asked would of course be PR which neither of the two main parties would wish to have as then they would never be able to be in control as one Governing party again.
Past attempts at coalitions have not been a success in the UK. There was the Tory dominated National Government during the economic slump in the 1930s which continued on till after the War when Attlee won a landslide for Labour, (which really WAS a Socialist party in those days) . Then there was the informal "Lib-Lab Pact" in the 1970s which kept Callaghan in power until defeated by Thatcher in 1979. The Liberals were ripped off by Labour in that instance and got very little out of it. Ironically in Feb 1974, Ted Heath offered a formal coalition to the Liberals but was refused. Thorpe and Steel would have had Cabinet positions.
Of course there is the Lib-Lab coalition in Holyrood for the Scots Parliament, but as to how ggod or bad it may be I will leave to our Scots posters to comment if they wish. I would also feel that the Lib-Dems would be happier in Coalition with Blair's New Labour than Howard's Tories given the idealogical differences especially on Europe.
No, I would happily settle for a neutralised Blair with a small majority he could barely work with.
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Post by Siontific on May 2, 2005 19:45:58 GMT
Taylorsman, you know too much ! But I like the information flow you keep coming out with.
I suppose I would like to see the Conservatives in with a small majority and the Lib/Dems as second party. But there's wishful thinking. And yes, in practice I can't see the Lib/Dems working with the Tories, only with Labour.
I have to agree that a Labour return with a smaller majority is highly likely. I just hope it's a really small majority.
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Post by leonardo on May 2, 2005 20:04:47 GMT
The British general election is not receiving of the type of media coverage we have become accustomed to over the years on our national TV stations. There seems to be a distinct lack of enthusiasm back here in Southern Ireland but I expect there is much more interest up in Northern Ireland. Hopefully things will pick up in the remaining few days. It is commonly believed, however, that Tony Blair will be returned as Prime Minister but with a much expected reduced majority. This view certainly falls in line with opinions expressed by members of the forum so far. I'm surprised there is little mention of Robert Kilroy Silk. Perhaps he is shown much more on British television
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Post by taylorsman on May 2, 2005 20:18:47 GMT
British TV has to follow strict guidelines on political fairness during an Election and as such they can only give Kilroy-Silk proportionate coverage with other Party Leaders. I don't think there is a conspiracy to keep him off our screens any more than there is to do that to the Greens. Only the BNP seem to be deliberately starved of publcity by the media and even they were given a Party Political Broadcast as they fielded sufficient candidates to qualify for one.
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Post by leonardo on May 2, 2005 20:31:05 GMT
I saw a documentary recently about Robert Kilroy. He is certainly a very intelligent man who was, in my opinion, stabbed in the back by UKIP. It will be interesting to see how he does in the upcoming election.
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Post by taylorsman on May 2, 2005 21:49:20 GMT
He has the guts to say what many other people think, and to hell with political correctness or precious pressure groups. I also sent a Donation to his Party but won't join as I like my total independence of thought and simply cannot be bothered anymore with all the rigmarole of Committees and Standing Orders and that sort of bullsh1t that goes with being in a Political Party.
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Post by leonardo on May 3, 2005 18:37:34 GMT
Steve
I see where you're coming from. There are far too many politicians who simply sit on the fence as they're too afraid to say exactly what they feel.
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Post by middlepillar on May 3, 2005 21:09:19 GMT
Leo
You are a naughty boy talking politics an all!!
However, like the ad says if you dont have a political opinion then you havent got an opinion!
For myself I am in an interesting position, we have an excellent MP who I think is a credit to Politics, he is a Lib/Dem, when it comes to elections I find myself looking at the individuals in my constituency (as Taylorsman has said I am not a Turkey voting for Christmas) and voting for the one who does the things he says he is going to do, and who promises me the things I want! so for the 3rd election running I will vote for Lib/Dem. However I do not want a Lib/Dem Goverment!
I can remember when we had a decent democratic goverment (I am not saying good or bad, just democratic) and it was Callaghans Labour Goverment pre-Thatcher, now he had to work for every inch of his political time as PM with a majority of approx 6 then he had to work with a Lib/Lab pact.
Basically I think I would prefer a Labour Goverment with a majority of 20 (make the b@stards work for us!).
With reference to the Tories I cannot believe they have not learned from Labours mistakes of the past (Michael Foot (a laughing stock) and Neil Kinnock (a fiery redheaded Welshman-no offence intended). They choose The Boy,(W.H) The no character (IDS) and now the Slime Ball! Why cant they find someone who can lead? we could then possibly give them another chance!
Roll on May 6th, all the crap will be over and we can get back to normallity!
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on May 4, 2005 7:38:31 GMT
I'm still a 'dont know' - even this late on! I have the following enviable choices: Syed Dulu (Liberal Democrat) Ejiro Etefia (Alliance for Change: Restore Peoples Freedom!) Shahagir Faruk (Conservative) John Foster (Green) George Galloway (Respect-Unity Coalition) Oona King (Labour) Celia Pugh (Independent ) It would make life sooo much easier if we had a Monster Raving Loony standing....altho arguably we have two of the biggest MRL's in parliament standing......
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Post by leonardo on May 4, 2005 21:55:46 GMT
Leo You are a naughty boy talking politics an all!! ;D ;D Well said
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Post by taylorsman on May 5, 2005 4:33:39 GMT
Well, it will soon be over and we should know by this time tomorrow. I still feel Blair will be back (worse luck!) but with a much reduced majority somewhere from 60 to 80. That would save Howard's bacon whereas if Blair maintain's a majority of 100 or more it will be looked upon as a failure for the Tories and he will have to go. How well the Liberals do is also of interest, I see them gaining an extra ten seats but do not see the minor parties such as UKIP, Veritas or the Greens gaining any seats.
Anyway we will know soon.
Interestingly, Sunderland South is usually the first seat to declare after the Polls close at 10.00pm. It is held by our implaccable enemy, Chris Mullins, and unfortunately as it is a safe Labour seat he will be most likely to win it again. Personally I would be quite delighted if any of the other 4 candidates beat him, even the Monster Raving Loony Candidate, but I fear Mr Mullins will return to Parliament, even if with a reduced majority.
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Post by munkholt on May 5, 2005 12:00:49 GMT
Even if the result is sure not to please everyone, I wish you a good election.
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Post by taylorsman on May 5, 2005 21:03:33 GMT
Polls have closed, Exit Polls projecting 66 Labour Majority. I will be watching results come in but may pop back here from time to time as Politics/Psephololgy is my second great interest after Freemasonry and indeed I used to be very active in such matters being twice a Local Councillor. Be sure to watch out for our Old Enemy Chris Mullins getting back in Sunderland South which is usually the first seat to declare. I will NOT be giving him a big cheer when he gets back
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Post by taylorsman on May 5, 2005 21:43:59 GMT
Mullins back, BOO! HISS! but predictable. However a 3.8% swing to the Tories in a safe Labour seat like that will make for an interesting result, Blair back but with a lot smaller majority. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by leonardo on May 5, 2005 22:00:13 GMT
Mullins seemed happy enough with his win. I agree that Labour will win but will have to do something wonderful next time around if they want to win an unheard of "four in a row."
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Post by taylorsman on May 5, 2005 22:35:59 GMT
I would be happy enough to be returned to such a well paid job too!
To look to the NEXT election is a bit OTT, but if the first 3 result now in with a 4.3% swing to the Tories is repeated then at last we have returned to having a viable Opposition in the UK. No bad thin to say the least.
Anyway, we must wait and see. A few Marginals will be due shortly , watch for the Birmingham seats and also Hove, I used to live there and once it was safe Tory but went Labour in 1997 and stayed there 2001. Looks like the Tories may get it back but there is a re-count, so its close.
I'll be back here from time to time when there is a lull or the boring farts from the various parties are going blah, blah as they bore me to tears.
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Post by taylorsman on May 6, 2005 4:00:51 GMT
Update as at 05.10 hours.
Well, something for everyone here. Blair gets his historic Third Victory with a good clear working majority, but a slap in the face as he loses seats and some of his "girls and boys", the Tories are on their way back after two knockouts as they gain seats, albeit in the South East and London, but not in the Cities outside of London, nor the West Midlands, nor the North. The Lib Dems have made gains on the Inner Cities from Labour and and not merely from the Tories in the Shires, George Galloway, the Hospital Doctor Richard Taylor in Wyre Forest (Kidderminster) and the Independent, Peter Law, in South Wales manage to "Beat City Hall" and get back against the odds. The only losers seem to have been Veritas and its Leader Kilroy-Silk (who's party I voted for), UKIP who also failed to make any great impact, and the Greens who did well in Brighton but didn't win a seat.
It will be interesting now to see if and to what extent Blair now trims his sales and I hope curtails the "New Labour " ideas but somehow I doubt that his ego will permit this. Hopefully he will bow out after a year or so and a better man will replace him as Labour Leader, not necessarily Gordon Brown either!
As for the Tories. No realistic and pragmatic person expected them to win this time, it was far too high a hill to climb, but they have re-established themselves as the Opposition and whilst I feel it is inappropriate to speak of the next time the idea of a Tory Government being elected is not such a "cloud cuckooland" idea as it would have been thought of a month or so ago. This has also saved Michael Howard's bacon as a poor result would have meant a long walk for him as with his three immediate predecessors.
So I am quite pleased with the results, and have been up all night (I've taken a day's leave today). I might go off to bed for a few hours and pick up when the results start to come in from the Countryside seats and Ulster in the morning and afternoon.
I would welcome the observations of others on the results so far.
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on May 6, 2005 6:19:43 GMT
Steve,
I never realsised that you were still interested in politics to the tune that you would take a days leve to see th results come in.
And to sacrifice a day for poloitics instead of a masonic meeting well.........................i am speechless
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on May 6, 2005 6:47:21 GMT
I have been quite encouraged by the number of independents who have got in, (with the exception of George G) shame to see Plaid loose a seat, and not make the gains they expected, however, this election seems to have been about giving TB et al a 'bloody nose' rather than getting them out.
Hopefully we will see an end to some of the more big brotherish policies they were proposing, as a PLP with a much reduced majority has to placate the 'rebel' faction as well as the slavishly loyal.
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