giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jan 17, 2006 9:24:19 GMT
Voted 1
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Post by munkholt on Jan 17, 2006 9:49:48 GMT
Voted 6, with the understanding that UGLE remains male only.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 17, 2006 12:48:52 GMT
Voted 6, understanding that the likes of myself would then be permitted to freely visit Co-Masonic Lodges with no punishment from UGLE.
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Post by ingo on Jan 17, 2006 14:19:38 GMT
I would vote 6 if I would be a malecraft mason in UGLoE-Amity.
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Post by vadro on Jan 17, 2006 16:37:58 GMT
Voted 1.
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Post by nikola on Jan 19, 2006 16:58:50 GMT
Voted 1
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Post by mike on Jan 19, 2006 17:38:49 GMT
Where's option 1 & 5?
M
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jan 19, 2006 18:04:48 GMT
Mike,
it could be a fair deal. To work separately, however being part of the same family
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Post by mike on Jan 19, 2006 20:03:45 GMT
it could be a fair deal. To work separately, however being part of the same family It is all the OWF and HFAF in England want. Since they approached UGLE for recognition in 1928 and were rebuffed they would now just like to be acknowledged as the Women's branch of Freemasonry. M
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Post by gord on Jan 20, 2006 10:51:08 GMT
Voted 1
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 20, 2006 13:03:49 GMT
I can remember up till about 40 years ago in Scotland that RCs were forbidden to attend Protestant Religious Services unless their Priest was asked for prior permission and some Church of Scotland Ministers strongly discouraged their flock from attending RC Mass etc. Of course many people on both sides ignored these Rules and attended the other Religion's Services out of respect for their friends, relatives, etc. Eventually these Rules were abolished and nowadays there are even joint Services etc and only the most bigoted on both sides will refuse to attend Services of other Religions. This did NOT result in a large defection of RCs to the Kirk or vice versa although a few may have crossed over in each direction.
I feel if we were less restrictive about Intervistation we would gain rather than lose overall. A few UGLE Brethren might leave to join LDH or the likes but they can do that anyway if they feel that strongly. I am also sure that there are UGLE Brethren who turn a "Nelson Eye" to the Rules and do visit , perhaps under an alias, Co-Masonic Lodges and other Lodges such as those of the Grand Orient of France when overseas and simply keep "mum" about so doing. Be honest, a man goes overseas , perhaps on business and finds that his Client or a Co-worker in the foreign branch is also "On the Square" and invites him to a Meeting of his Lodge. Do you seriously think that he is then going to contact his Lodge Secretary, to contact the Grand Secretary, to discover if that GL is recognised by UGLE? Get real! In 8 cases out of 10 I bet he will thankfully accept his Host's or Co-Worker's Masonic Hospitality if not for its own sake then to avoid giving offence. We have to critically examine these Rules and slaughter a sacred cow or two .
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Post by mrmason on Jan 20, 2006 13:58:25 GMT
I personaly can't see how some would want the UGLE to recognise womens freemasonry but not let the good ladies attend lodge meetings under the UGLE. Surely you should either recognise them or not, and if they are recognised then intervisitation should be the norm. A bit of having our cake and eating it springs to mind. As for myself, although not my constitution, I would have to stick with tradition and vote 1. Sorry ladies
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Post by Flensted on Jan 20, 2006 16:21:28 GMT
I voted 6, with the understanding that UGLE is remaining male only.
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Post by munkholt on Jan 20, 2006 21:47:13 GMT
I personaly can't see how some would want the UGLE to recognise womens freemasonry but not let the good ladies attend lodge meetings under the UGLE. This is true and relevant. But the ladies' lodge that my wife joined yesterday invites men to come to special events such as Installations and Consecrations. And they do get male visitors (both regular and irregular). It's not informal visiting, where you can just sit in on the rituals, but it's still an opportunity to get a feel for what the other lodge is doing, what their Instructions illuminate and show support for their work at a very basic level. I feel sad for being excluded from showing that respect and support. We should be able to return the favour and hospitality: again, at special occassions, demonstrations, lodges of research etc. Maybe even just once a year opening the lodge in I. degree for women, so that our wifes and partners, and visitors from abroad etc. could come by and share an evening. We have something like 30 lodge nights a year (just in craft) - I think we could survive opening the doors just once or twice.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Jan 20, 2006 22:43:59 GMT
Ditto. That would get my vote.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jan 20, 2006 22:49:59 GMT
Totally agreed.
P. S.= Tom, do you need the Lewis' ritual?
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Post by rbartlett on Jan 21, 2006 8:44:25 GMT
Voted 1
Anything else is the winding staircase to mixed lodges..
S&F
Richard
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 21, 2006 9:07:10 GMT
Of course, were UGLE to drop its ridiculous prohibition on OES which organisation is perfectly acceptable to GL of S, (and many American GLs) and operates successfully North of the Border, then Masonic Men and Women could have joint meetings without there needing to be Mixed Lodges etc. I know many Scots Brethren who enjoy the Meetings of "The Star" with their wives, sisters, mothers and other women.
Now I feel this prohibition could easily be struck out, how about it, Lord Northampton? Many people thought that the business about Royal Arch being the completion of the (Craft) Third Degree was written in Tablets of Stone, now it is but History and was deleted by Grand Lodge and Grand Chapter, so the bar on UGLE Masons being involved with OES could as easily be abolished.
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Post by munkholt on Jan 21, 2006 9:45:50 GMT
P. S.= Tom, do you need the Lewis' ritual? Hehe - my wife went through the Initiation with my future son in her womb - so he's already Initiated ... into a women's only lodge! ;D (Or does that make him a candidate for Mixed FM?)
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Post by mike on Jan 21, 2006 12:51:26 GMT
Of course, were UGLE to drop its ridiculous prohibition on OES which organisation is perfectly acceptable to GL of S, (and many American GLs) and operates successfully North of the Border, then Masonic Men and Women could have joint meetings without there needing to be Mixed Lodges etc. I know many Scots Brethren who enjoy the Meetings of "The Star" with their wives, sisters, mothers and other women. Doesn't even come close! OES is an "Adoptive" Order it doesn't make a woman something on a par with their Male Mason relatives. It merely and symbolically puts them under the protection of the male Order. I believe that it is still a rquirement that its Candidates must have a relative who is a Mason so what about the ladies who don't have one. This is part of the reason why there is Co-masonry and feminine masonry to day. The orders that preceeded Co-masonry in 19th Century France were "Adoptive". M
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