|
Post by mrmason on Feb 16, 2005 16:18:22 GMT
While this is a forum not tied to a strict code I find that the topics of UFO's and Aliens have nothing in common with the esoterical side of freemasonry. Or am I wrong?
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 16:33:41 GMT
Bob
If you think of aliens as little green men, then probably not. But if you think of them as an age old phenomenon, then possibly, though it may depend on which fraternity you are in.
Consider one example.
Some abductees tell of the aliens teaching them, helping them to help humanity. Conceptually that is not unlike how some may describe Freemasonry (helping you to become a better person and in turn to help humanity).
Now I know that Guardian Angels are very important to some Freemasons in some Fraternities. Keeping things very simple here, at a conceptual level, what is the difference between a Guardian Angel and an alien?
Now if Guardian Angels are, I understand, important in some Lodge's work, and if you take the view that Freemasonry is one of the modern vehicles for preserving the ancient mysteries, then a link can be argued. But the terminology can get in the way.
But for a definative answer you would have to get the views of Freemasons in the fraternities concerned.
But you may not consider them to be Freemasons, even though the public does. But these are separate issues.
Apologies to anyone who thinks that I have oversimplified matters here, or to any who think that I am talking nuts. I am sure that some Freemasons have written books which have touched on this, I will have to dig some of them out.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Feb 16, 2005 17:14:18 GMT
Bob,i agree with you that some posts do get quite stretched from the masonic connection.
I like to lbe quite free with the moderating and do like to see how things pan out and quite often they do make interesting reading although i must admit some of the stuff i have seen posted does not float my boat but i respect that it might rattle some cages and threrefore as bod said tolerance is the key and that secret key is a freemasons tongue.
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 16, 2005 18:38:24 GMT
Stewart, I've said this before, there's actually nothing to stop you becoming Pope - you don't have to be a Catholic, you don't have to be a priest, you don't even have to be male - except actually being voted in by the College of Cardinals. And if you were Pope, you could change everything you didn't like about the Church with the stroke of a pen. Anyway, that's just logical argument. More of immediate interest is the matter of aliens. They do not, indeed, have anything to do with Freemasonry, nor until one of them is Initiated will they have anything to do with it. That's the fact of it; and while we're on facts, can I ask you what facts you have on which to base your professed belief in aliens? I'm not disputing the mathematical probability of their existence. I'm convinced they either do, or did, or if they didn't that there must have been an amazing reason for them not to have done. I just don't hold with them having visited or contacted us already, because if they had, wouldn't more than a handful of people know about it? Wouldn't there be artefacts or funny looking things around the place? In a few years' time, when they haven't arived, it's something I may remind you of. ;D
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 19:20:04 GMT
Hi Ruff
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Feb 16, 2005 19:42:35 GMT
I think a few people have been affected by banned substances here and i look forward to when they come back down to earth from the other planet where they went tripping to
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 19:46:52 GMT
Staffs
Would that be Sirius?
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Feb 16, 2005 20:17:12 GMT
I think a few people have been affected by banned substances here and i look forward to when they come back down to earth from the other planet where they went tripping to I agree fully.
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 20:59:13 GMT
Staffs, Leo
Why?
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Feb 16, 2005 22:18:23 GMT
Why do I agree with Lee?
Because I see where he's coming from.
There are those who for one reason or another who believe in extraterrestrial beings. This is their prerogative. Nothing whatsoever against that. Even certain Buddhist sects do not discount it altogether; unless it can be verified one way or the other they are fairly ambivalent to the whole concept. I personally do not share those views. If I am confronted, or even abducted by an actual Alien, then quite naturally my position would change.
Until then I find it difficult to reconcile freemasonry with extraterrestrial life forms. So from that perspective I fully agree with Lee's comments.
It isn't a debate I have any desire or inclination to go further into as I believe personally it's a fairly pointless exercise.
However, if others wish to continue contributing to the forum in this vein, and Lee is willing to allow it to continue, then I have no objection. "Freedom of expression" is, after all, a wonderful thing.
|
|
|
Post by mrmason on Feb 16, 2005 22:56:50 GMT
Hi Stewart, aliens, guardian angels etc are not my cup of tea, however I can acccept each to their own. Hi Lee, I appreciate the level of moderating that you do. I am certainly not calling for this topic to be stopped, but I have to admit I've lost interest, in this one certainly
|
|
bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
|
Post by bod on Feb 17, 2005 1:50:27 GMT
But here is a challenge Ruff, you tell me precisely what you would consider to be proof, and I will see what I can do for you. Oook, me, me me pleasepleaseplease? Stewart as proof I would you like you to get an alien to meet me at a pub and buy me a pint. To make it easy I will let the alien choose the pub, as long as it is in London - I'll get there. Promise....
|
|
|
Post by Trinityman on Feb 17, 2005 5:37:02 GMT
Bod No No NO . That won't do at all. What if the alien is completely genuine but a complete tightwad? Or how about the pub in question doesn't have change for an Intergalactic Zong (= approx. $1,000,000,000 and a sheep). Just get it to come up to you and say "I am an alien, honest" - that would be good enough for me.
|
|
|
Post by Trinityman on Feb 17, 2005 5:38:56 GMT
Actually come to think of it I might try and get a pint out of it. Or even a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster!!!
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 17, 2005 6:49:52 GMT
Even FIFA, who can legally rewrite the rules to place them however near together or far apart they wish, even they have only ever moved the goalposts. No-one, and certainly not I myself, could be accused however of changing them. But it depends what level of proof you are willing to accept on the matter.
As for myself, the proof I will accept is if an alien comes up and bites me on the bum. I'm talking perceive with my own senses or otherwise apprehend in partnership with the reasoning faculties of my mind. That kind of proof. The kind you can stick in a cellophane bag and call Exhibit A; or better yet, stick in a witness box.
The fact is, thousands of people from exactly the serious, upstanding, pillar-of-the-community backgrounds you have cited are also on record saying things like, "Global warming? Shyte!" and "Why, the fox enjoys the chase just as much as the hounds". Just because they look respectable does not of itself make them credible witnesses.
On the other hand, if Osama Bin Laden were on fire, I doubt I'd so much as bother my semmit to pee on him; but if he said an Armalite was better value than an AK-47, I would respect his superior knowledge in the matter. Who is a credible source?
"It's time to ask yourself what you believe"
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 17, 2005 8:27:04 GMT
Bod
It may already have happened for all you know. If you work from the premise that aliens came here millenia ago, then some of them could nowadays look pretty much like you and me. And you would be none the wiser.
When this sentiment was first given to me it took me a couple of years to get my head around it. But I can be slow at times.
Trinityman
You joke, but raise a very pertinent point. Lets say that in Trinity one night one of your brothers, in all seriousness, informed you of this. Would you have any hope of believing him?
Ruff
As I said before polygraph tests in the US can be used as court evidence, exhibit A. Can you be more specific please and I will see what I can dig up. As I say set the goalposts clearly, specifically, and give me a few weeks.
Also I hear what you say about credible witnesses, wouldn't Nick Pope, MoD ufo desk man for three years fit the bill? He had access to all public reports and radar/military stuff, sort of was his job with our government. And yes he does still work with the MoD, they have even promoted him I understand. How much more credible do you want?
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Feb 17, 2005 8:31:18 GMT
I think this topic has strayed way off from a masonic esoterical discussion .
I believe this is very close to being moved to Leos board.
Anyone ?
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Feb 17, 2005 8:54:26 GMT
Good idea Staffs!
We DON'T "Presto Locko" but this one is away off in the boondocks as the Yanks say.
|
|
|
Post by Trinityman on Feb 17, 2005 10:35:36 GMT
Trinityman You joke, but raise a very pertinent point. Lets say that in Trinity one night one of your brothers, in all seriousness, informed you of this. Would you have any hope of believing him? Just so I don't misunderstand you Stewart, are you asking what I would do if one of my brothers in lodge took me to one side and, in all ernestness, proceeded to tell me that he was an extra-terrestrial?
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 17, 2005 11:06:56 GMT
Bill
Not exactly, this is where explaining things can get tricky, which is why I suspect that silence prevails (and to avoid ridicule).
To understand you would have to accept the possibility that Millenia ago alien species came to Earth and started a life here. Various masonic and non masonic authors have touched upon this and there are many ancient tales and religious accounts that could be seen this way.
What I write below is a simplification but for ease it will do for now.
Now if that were the case then:-
From one perspective we are all descendants from aliens. So we are part alien. In which case disbelieving in aliens seems strange. And as evolution has progressed over the years the aliens are in effect us.
Following from this perhaps over time our ancestors explore and periodically revisit us on family visits. In which case, assuming that our appearances were not that dissimilar then why not?
From a more esoteric perspective (which I understand that some Freemasons, and indeed non-Freemasons adhere to), perhaps we are just like droplets of God here to experience. We take on a body, a shell so to speak, and we infuse ourselfs into this existance in this incarnation to learn, experience, and hopefully grow, before reincarnating again either here or elsewhere. In this case, then it is quite conceivable that one of your brothers could feel the need to chat and come out with this.
So while not exactly as you decribe it, and while this very subject may be "alien" to UGLE Freemasonry, that does not necessarily make it alien to the wider world of Freemasonry. But I accept that you may not recognise them to be Freemasons.
Anyway, as I have said the above is a simplification, and with all simplifications it can be difficult to express matters accurately.
I guess that it depends on your view of life. And new forms of life are being discovered daily in the most suprising parts of our planet. Oxygen is not a requirement, sulphur and methane based life, thrives in our oceans. Ten years ago that would have been esoteric nonsense. Now it is scientific fact. I wonder what will be scientific fact in another ten years.
I really must dust off and update my old writings on this, should give a few a good laugh (which our world badly needs), some pause for thought, and some hope.
But let me ask a simple specific question Bill. If in Lodge, you were taken aside, and in all seriousness one of your brothers told you about his abduction experiences, in detail, and could offer some supporting evidence of sorts. How would you react?
|
|