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Post by plewis66 on Mar 30, 2005 11:54:11 GMT
It's nearly a month now since I started looking into masonry with any seriousness. For this whole time, I have only really seriously considerd UGLE, nd I have assumed that when it comes to taking the plunge I would, indeed become an UGLE mason (i just love deliberately mispronouncing that acronym ;D ). But I wonder. I've read in several places that co-masonry is more geared towards the symbolic and mystical aspects of masonry. This is what I'm looking for. The fraternal-social aspect of masonry really has absolutely zero appeal to me. It has no repulsive affect either. I can be quite social, like dressing up,and enjoy conversation. But I would hope that such social activity is centered around discussions of the symbology and mysticism of masonry, not about which option pack Charlie got with his new BMW But I sort of feel like if I become a co-mason, I'm going out on a limb, and not being a 'real' mason at all. I'm also not sure whcat the situation is with access to certain side orders from co-masonry. There are a couple of such orders that I have managed to do a litle research into, and a couple of them sound quite interesting. 'd be terribly dissappointed if I joined a co-masonic lodge then later found there is no route from there to some of the side orders. Any kind of advice or information will be greatly appreciated here.
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Post by a on Mar 30, 2005 12:17:57 GMT
But I wonder. I've read in several places that co-masonry is more geared towards the symbolic and mystical aspects of masonry. From my external experience and years of research I would say that this is generally true, in practice if not in theory. Though As Taylorsman will tell you there are the Higehr orders in UGLE. But that tales time to qualify and more money. A bit like me. Well taht is what many would have you believe. But I would suggest that this is nonsense. The side orders do exist, again talk to them. There are two popularly known comasonic fraternities operating in England, LDH who have two lodges near Manchester, (checked your profile) see www.droit-humain.org/uk/Co-Freemasonry/UK_lodges/TheWisdom/thewisdom.html and there is the GLFFMW www.grandlodge.org.uk/ and I understand that there are some independent lodges as well, though most Freemasons will tell you that they can't then be Freemasons, but that is another argument. If you want me to introduce you to LDH I can, through their head office, who can then put you in touch with some comasons more local to you. I dont think that the GLFFMW have any lodges near Manchester but it may be worth an email checking. I have met, researched, and thought about all sides of Freemasonry (well as many as I can find) so please let me know if there is any specific information that I can help you with. Also don't forget the other male only fraternities as well, but I am unsure how the mods would feel about me giving one of the web addresses out here, so contact me on the back channel if you want more info here. Hope that helps.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 30, 2005 12:19:36 GMT
I think you have answered your own question, Plewis. BECOME A CO-MASON!
You desire the Symbolical, Esoteric, Mystical etc and from what I understand you will get this from Day One in Co-Masonry, send a PM to Whistler for more details about this.
Yes, by taking that path you will, at least for the foreseeable future, block yourself from attending any "Regular" Lodge etc under the control of UGLE and other amity Grand Lodges (I have always pronounced it UGLY unlike Stewart Edwards who says UGILL). That situation could well change in years to come, who knows?
You must do what feels right to you. Just as one who likes the Ritual and Ceremonial sides of Religion would be unhappy in a very Low and Evangelical Church but would feel ay home in High Anglicanism, so you would I feel be in the wrong pond in many UGLE Craft Lodges I have attended , especially some Provincial ones where the converstaion at the Festive Board is more likely to be about the relative merits of the Modeo against its Vauxhall equivalent, or Trevor's Golf handicap, or other such matters than on more Esoteric Matters. To get to these in Regular Freemasonry will take you some years whereas in Co-Masonry that is what it is about from the start, although I am sure they too have a Social Side should you wish to partake in this.
So, the argumentum ab hominem, if I could roll back time and had been then aware of Co-Masonry, would I have joined one of its Lodges instead of an UGLE one? Perhaps. I don't have a time machine and have managed to get out of Regular Freemasonry what I was looking for, but you have the choice, Plewis.
Weight up carefully what you want, what will fit your desires and needs, where you will feel happier and more fullfilled. Evaluate what you will gain and lose in each option and choose well.
Whichever path you choose, I will be happy to call you Brother when you are indeed Initiated.
Good fortune in your decision.
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Post by a on Mar 30, 2005 12:21:36 GMT
(I have always pronounced it UGLY unlike Stewart Edwards who says UGILL). Hands up I do, though that is just the way that I speak there is no pun/criticism intended.
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Post by plewis66 on Mar 30, 2005 13:52:51 GMT
Thanks for the replies, guys.
I think now I have to sit back for a while, and ponder what I do.
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Post by plewis66 on Apr 1, 2005 18:13:14 GMT
If you want me to introduce you to LDH I can, through their head office, who can then put you in touch with some comasons more local to you. Stewart, can I take the liberty of asking you to keep this invitation open for a little while? It is slowly dawning on me the Freemasonry is (or at least can be) a serious undertaking, and I need to take stock before I jump in. Many thanks.
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Post by a on Apr 1, 2005 18:23:56 GMT
Of Course, you know where I am. Alternatively just email them directly, they are very friendly.
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Apr 1, 2005 19:59:47 GMT
plewis,
I can only speak from my own experience in the Craft, but I have found that the social aspect, which always rather turned me off in principle, was something I began to see with new eyes. The society of my peers, a thing I had only rarely tasted, and even more seldom enjoyed, emrged into my surprised realisation as, truly, a revealed Esoteric science to me.
Psychological isolation, they never tell you about it in school, but it is in fact the moral, social and spiritual disease of our times. It's why no-one feels they live in a country any more, why there's no national pride or even individual pride. People feel they're cut off from the other people around them, as if there's no earthly connection between them.
When you become a Brother, that ends. Everyone now acts towards you like a friend. Even if there are some who let the side down a little, their actions seem even more extreme exactly because they're so out-of-step with everyone else in the creation of that immediate Masonic connection. The handshake, which used to seem like the sign of exclusivity between Masons, the thing which singled You out from the conservative, elitist echelons of Us, now seems to me like the sign of the philosophy of inclusiveness.
There is time enough for SRIA and the Esoteric side, if you want it - and, these days, there are plenty of private groups where you can pursue that kind of knowledge outside of the Masonic umbrella - but the simplest lessons are the most profound, and it's the ones you will learn in Craft.
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Post by munkholt on Apr 1, 2005 20:12:47 GMT
It is slowly dawning on me the Freemasonry is (or at least can be) a serious undertaking, and I need to take stock before I jump in. Many thanks. A couple of years ago, when last I considered becoming a Freemason, I contacted LDH, because I liked that it was open to both sexes and all religions, as opposed to DDFO, the Danish GL, in amity with UGLE, Which is all-male, Christians only. But it didn't do it for me, and I let it lie for a while. This time I approached DDFO, and suddenly things clicked, and I'm pretty sure that's where I'll end up (I have an Initiation-date!). But I'll still have another talk with LDH, partly on the advice of people here -- and the situation has changed, because my girlfriend is looking at women-only FM, and we want to fully explore our choices in this. And also, I've become more aware of the differences between "regular" and the, shall we say openess of co-Masonic orders like LDH. And even if the talk doesn't change anything, we will still have met a serious Freemason, somebody with whom we can share ideas and experiences in an informal Lunchtimer-like forum in the future. And we'll be satisfied that we made our decision with all the facts in. I've been travelling for at least 10 years, before it felt right - I can take an hour to talk to a no doubt knowledgable mason. Take your time.
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Post by middlepillar on Apr 1, 2005 21:05:58 GMT
PL
Thee has been some Frank & Interesting things written here, I will put in my twopenneth!
I freely admit that I was completely unaware of Co-Masonry before I hit the Masonic Forum Discussion Groups, I was aware of Female Freemasonry. Since I have been active in this and another Forum I have gained much knowledge from our Brother Co-Masons and have indeed learnt how differently they approach the 'esoteric' side of Freemasonry. For this I owe much to Whistler, Hubert, Ingo and many more.
However, I have never thought "I wish I had joined Co-Masonry", which is if I am honest is the answer I would have to give if you asked me personally!
The main reason for this is quite simply, I am on an incredible journey of discovery, it is my journey alone, I have met many wonderful and interesting people on this journey and I know that I will meet many more. The important thing to me is it is MY JOURNEY (sory for emphasising). I have taken nearly 20 years so far and I hpe to take a good few more.
The thing I have learnt more than anything else is simply that you cannot rush, and while I like the fact that Co-Masonry invites an instant appreciation of the Esoteric, I have posted elsewhere that I believe our (UGLE)Masonry prepares us for this somewhat incredible journey.
I do not agree with the majority of people who say UGLE is not into the esoteric, I believe Freemasonry is a well calculated system to seperate the wheat from the chaff, (without upsetting good honest people) As Ruff Ashlar has said we have the time!
I will repeat myself (sorry) Be sure to smell the roses as you walk along the road.
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Post by Temple on Apr 1, 2005 22:52:34 GMT
I can't begin to tell you how relieved I am to read that it's the general consensus that co-masonry is spiritual and esoterical. If I had thought it was not, while an avenue not open to me was potentially more fulfilling, I would be heartsore. Having said that I, like others, am a pretty sociable person but, I am seeking gnosis and while there are times I think I've found it at the bottom of a bottle of wine. It's always gone by morning.
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Post by plewis66 on Apr 2, 2005 10:06:26 GMT
Many, many thanks. Ruff, I expect you are right about the social aspects of Masonry. I can't say I'm anti-social, but the social aspect is the least attractive thing for me. But, as I say, I suspect you are right, and that the reasons you give are true. A sense of belonging is certainly something missing from society, and which general society itself now struggles to provide. I secretly feel I will really appreciate the fraternity once I get into it. Middlepillar: I believe you are absolutely correct about not rushing. As you say, we are being frank here, so a bit of my background might make it easier for people to advise me on my path. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that at 38 years of age, I have 30 years of continuous conscious involvement in esoterica. My journey began when I was 8 years old, and borrowed a copy of 'The Encyclopaedia of the Unexplained' from my local library. It contained a picture and brief description of the Qabalistic Tree of Life, and a picture of 'The Fool' from Crowleys Tarot. I decided there and then that I needed to know more. I first read 'The Kabbalah Unveiled' when I was 12. When I was 18 I joined the O.T.O. Though that didn't last long, as I later changed my mind about Crowley being a prophet of a new Aeon - and the people I encountered here were even worse than the MBS crew I mention below. When I was 20, a friend and I built and consecrated a temple in the manner of Golden Dawn workings (not initiatiations) in a spare room in his house. We worked very intensely in the GD system for several years. We never made contact with any GD society. We had occaissionally visited 'Body, Mind and Spirit' festivals as punters, to sound out the waters, and decided that, as we are speaking frankly, most of the people there were freaks and/or social misfits. So we worked in isolation. Ten years ago, I met my wife-to-be. She is into yoga - deeply - and as I had some exposure to yoga physically through martial arts, and esoterically through Crowley's writings, I was quite happy to continue my work in that vein. So, it is now 10 years since I donned my robes and armed myself with my elemental weapons (which are stored safely away), and in that time I have been initiatated into the order of Karma Sannyasa in the Satyananda tradition of yoga. It is from this background that a month or so ago, I entered 'freemasonry' into google. This was done as part of a lunch time game we have at work: Who can find the most obscure and interesting lunchtime distraction. But what I read when I found the UGLE site was, very, very interesting. From there I found the Internet Lodge who listed SRIA as a side order, and SRIA listed (almost) the Golden Dawn initiatory grades as its own. I was aware from earlier reading that Samuel Liddell and Wynn Westcot had been members of a society of the same name, and this picqued my curiosity. The most appealing thing to me was the fact that I was pretty sure that freemasons were not the typical 'Mind Body Spirit' crew, and probably would not start freaking me out with (IMHO) new age nonsense with crystals and what-not. So, I read around a bit (and posted on this forum a little, and read nearly every thread from start to finish) to see what the crack was with the Craft. The more I discovered, the more I liked. I especially got excited when I found a document describing some areas of study of SRIA, and they were exactly the same as the areas of study within the GD. So, to be honest, my attraction to masonry was at first, as a means of entry into SRIA. The christianity thing is not an issue, as yoga is not a religion, and I can honestly say that I feel myself to be a Christian, if not a churchian. But then, people started to tell me that I would be better with LDH if I was interested in esoterica, as this is more readily availbale with that system than within UGLE. But SRIA is open only to regular masons. But SRIA is no longer the be-all and end-all of my interest in masonry. And I'm now well into Leadbetters 'Secret Life', which is from the LDH tradition, and that seems quite appealing. So at present, I don't know: a) whether I want to set foot on this path once again; b) if I do, is it to try get into SRIA as a source of community and discussion in areas I have worked in alone (to help put me straight), and continue the work I started 18 years ago; c) or is it to get into something slightly different, though founded in esoterica. It's a huge decision. Many years ago, people I guess would have had only the choice of entering, or not, the masonic system that they encountered via whatever means, and most likely, would have no esoteric background at all. But the situation now is that I have a fairly moderate esoteric background, and have the option of which direction to attempt to travel in. Because the choice is open to me, it is vitally important to me that I make the best decision, whether this be UGLE, LDH or naught. Of course, even if I make the decision, there is always the chance I'd be black-balled anyway, and I suspect the more I rant like this, the greater the odds become
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Post by taylorsman on Apr 2, 2005 21:25:09 GMT
Having read the above I am even more convinced that my advice to you to join a Co-Masonic Lodge rather than a UGLE one is the correct course for you to follow.
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jmd
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fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Apr 3, 2005 7:37:49 GMT
If the SRIA is what you seek to join, then note that though it is a pre-requisite that you are a Master Mason within either the UGLE or another GL in 'amity' with it, there is no obligation to remain a Mason within UGLE once a member of SRIA.
In fact, once a member of SRIA, in terms of its own internal membership requirement, you could resign from your Lodge and all other side orders without this affecting your College membership.
You would then also be free to join LDH if desired (and the higher degrees within such), and remain a legitimate member of SRIA.
Not a path expected by SRIA Fraters, but one within its constitutional possibilities.
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Post by taylorsman on Apr 3, 2005 8:55:50 GMT
I can't see the point of that rigmarole JMD as Co-Masonry already has the Esoteric Component from Day One Craft EA "Entry Level" which is missing from UGLE Craft and has to be put back in by joining SRIA. So if Plewis does join LDH or some other similar Co-Masonic body he will have acheved this already "bundled in" and would only need to join SRIA if he choses the more Mundane UGLE (or Amity) option.
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jmd
Member
fourhares.com
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Post by jmd on Apr 3, 2005 9:10:42 GMT
Male Craft Freemasonry also has the esoteric component - even if many brethren do not see nor acknowledge it or, for some, are fearful of such mention.
What is offered in SRIA is of a different nature to what is offered in Freemasonry (whether the esoteric nature of the same is more spoken of, explained, and discusse, or not).
Personally, when I went through a short phase of having resigned from various Craft degrees (during a period of great financial difficulties and the break-up of a relationship), I not only maintained my SRIA connection, but seriously considered what I have described above.
In the end, I chose to re-join Male Craft not for convenience, but because therein are (in Melbourne) a greater number of like-minded brethren.
If, however, the interest is a deep esoteric interest, and not only Masonic, but Rosicrucian, then to cut off SRIA possibility seems to me short-sighted. It is therefore not a rigmarole, but rather seeking to join a Lodge, and at a later date changing the Lodge one is a member of - as many men in any case do at least here with residential moves over one's adult life.
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Post by plewis66 on Apr 3, 2005 10:25:29 GMT
Pity I can't get the best of both worlds, and join SRIA from LDH.
I seem to recall reading somewhere (somthing along the lines of), SRIA is not really related freemasonry, but that the requirement of MM is to ensure amongsy other things, the good character of the applicant.
If this is so (and it may not be, I cannot quote my source...I can't find it again!), then I would have thought that MM from any established GL would be ok.
Though of course SRIA and anyone else are perfectly entitled to make their own rules.
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