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Post by seekinglilmore on Oct 24, 2007 20:25:16 GMT
Sorry for such a long post. I just honestly believe that this fraternity can greatly benifit me throughout my life. Not only me, but my family. From hearing Masons talk about the subject, they seem very happy about the topic and how it has structured them into becoming a better man. Since recently entering the workforce, I believe this could be a great factor in the shaping of the rest of my life...for the better. I look foward to hearing your responses and hope to be able to be in some of your shoes soon helping a guy like me in making a decision to becoming a member. I know it would make my grandfather proud to see me become a member and continue in his footsteps.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 24, 2007 22:08:40 GMT
Greetings Seekinglilmore.
First of all, I can tell you are greatly searching your soul about this, which is good. Excellent really. I will add to your ponderings that many, many stand outside the door but only a precious few actually shoulder their way thru the crowd and knock. Whether you choose to knock, or not, either way, will be right for you.
Second, you will notice I've edited your post. You did nothing wrong but, for some of us, some things . . . I'm going to discuss it with the other moderators and admins here. It may be restored. Or not. As will be determined to be for the best. You did nothing wrong, K?
Good luck to you.
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Post by mike on Oct 24, 2007 23:23:54 GMT
Are younger men who are interested in becoming a freemason looked down upon if younger men shouldn't be in the same lodge as an older member? To be honest,you can safely ignore this particular nugget of supposed "advice". My own Lodge has a membership with the youngest being 28 and the oldest past 80, all of whom are perfectly oblivious to each other's ages. She is still rather "set" in her perception of the fraternity due to the uneducated voices of non-masons on the conspiracy websites. I suggested possibly reading the books I have , or as a few of you members on here mentioned, talking to you all about it. She doesn't seem very thrilled or anything to do either because she thinks that the books were written by Masons with a bias, and that they leave out the "secret bad stuff). What I have thought is I could have a nice sit down discussion with her, her father, and my grandfather about it. This way she will be able to hear views on the subject from those who are already members of the fraternity that she knows personally and trust. To be honest she sounds like she is a bit easily led and would just consider any such meeting to be a "set-up" to get you under our power. Best not to bother, if her dislike for Freemasonry is really that great you should forget about it, rather than wreck your future home life. G.A.O.T.U.- She believes a few websites about this subject. Claiming something along the lines of "Gaotu is God. Unfortunately, Lucifer is also Gaotu".....It is something along those lines. I may be adding/leaving words out to that phrase. In a nutshell, she thinks that men go to the lodge to worship Lucifer. From my research, I have concluded ( please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Great Architect refers to the supreme being that each Freemason personally believes in...rather than a single God that they all believe in. Many people believe that there is just the one Creator, despite the different names that man-made religions give to him/she/it. Freemasonry is not a religion, that is why it is open to men(and women) of any faith, creed and colour all around the World. Our meetings begin with a request for God to look down and bless it, as there will often be Masons of different faiths in attendance we use a generic Job description rather than a name for God. The Great Architect is not a name for God but a description of who he is, after all he created the Universe, didn't he. I've never heard that Lucifer created the Universe. However, I would also urge you and her to find out who the term Lucifer was actually applied to in the Bible. You will both be pleasantly suprised, this is what Albert Pike was trying to get people to do. B.) (edited out by Moderator) - This topic I'm completely oblivious to and lack understanding myself in Cant answer as I don't know what you wrote. C.) She thinks that everytime her father goes to the lodge someone litterally "bust his head" with a type of club. I have no clue where she got that idea. I can't understand why anybody would want to voluntarily go to a place where they are hit in the head with a baseball bat everytime they walk in a door??? Well this is just plain ridiculous. Ever asked her about the bruises, that he would obviously have if this was true???
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 25, 2007 0:15:30 GMT
Are younger men who are interested in becoming a freemason looked down upon if younger men shouldn't be in the same lodge as an older member? I am always interested in why people join Freemasonry, I agree with Mikes observations , but as I am a bit long winded I thought I would expand on his observations. My Lodge, is populated by young men from age 24 to age 39 mostly , then you get the old farts like me at 57 and the others go up in age. We have a good number of Guys from our Local Rugby Club. I enjoy there company and they seem to enjoy mine. So my answer to the young Masons only advice is , no I dont findit so at all. The young men give the enthusiasm and drive and the old er guys give exopereince and a level head. RESPECT is all that is needed. What you have to do is stop reading books and sit down and talk with some Freemasons. Well I dont get this part, if she trusted them then why the suspicion ? Absolutely, you should never consider joining Freemasonry if it would upset your family in any way. Well its like Jesus said, render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars. render unto God the things that are Gods. Let us look at the words to start, Great Architect of the Universe , GAotU. So who do you say is the Great Architect. The question you are asked before oining is , do you believe in a supreme being? no one in Freemasonry is trying to make you change the Faith you have, we just want to know that you understand there is a supreme being , one God, you may call him Allah , you may say Jehweh ot just God. That is a matter for you. Understand this, there has never been a reported incident of a man leaving his chosen faith to convert to any Faith supposedly offered by Freemasonry. Freemasonry as openly stipulated by every grand Lodge is not a Religion. PM me and I will try to help. Well some masons I know look like they could do with a clunk on the head but your right , common sense would answer this one. There could be some symbolic gestures that could be said to have originated in the days of violence. Remember all Freemasonry is founded on the Bible and the stories from it. Now there is a great deal of violence in the Bible. It was normal for that period in history.
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Post by maat on Oct 25, 2007 0:57:46 GMT
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Post by whistler on Oct 25, 2007 1:59:49 GMT
Hi Maat Then there is " Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag, And smile, smile, smile, While you’ve a lucifer to light your fag,"
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Post by mike on Oct 25, 2007 9:18:42 GMT
To be honest I was trying to avoid dragging this thread off-topic but hey ho. That particular article is a little less than helpful as this particular enquirer appears to be approaching us from a Christian stand-point and it would be better to deal with the question in the same vein. Basically Lucifer is similar to our own GAOTU in that it is a descriptive term meaning "bringer of light" that is why in the Bible it was applied to several totally different people. Here are some good resources: www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htmwww.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtmlwww.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htmTo sum up even the adversary was created by the GAOTU, so therefore did not create the Universe but is merely part of the Creator's creation. M
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 25, 2007 13:13:35 GMT
You've hit it on the head, Bro. Mike. Under the Christian system, Ha'satan (or Satan) was created by God and, as does all His creation, works according to His will. I've often thought it antiChristian to suggest otherwise.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 25, 2007 14:55:47 GMT
Each of us will carry a constant battle between good and evil within us all of our years on this world. Maybe beyond this world, who knows ?
What the questioner has to understand is that Freemasonry askes nothing of the candidate other than the Candidate agrees he accepts there is but one supreme being. It does not instruct you on who to worship or who that supreme being is, that is entirely the decision of each individual.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 25, 2007 16:25:55 GMT
(Recalling the question as it is asked)Hmmmmm. I'm not sure the prospective candidate is asked if s/he believes in only one. Just "a" Supreme Being. Which suggests they need to believe in at least one. And "supreme being" is not defined for the candidate so . . . Dizzy yet?
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jmd
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fourhares.com
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Post by jmd on Oct 27, 2007 12:39:57 GMT
Though I realise NOT all constitutions use this question to new candidates, still...
"In all cases of difficulties, in whom do you place your trust?"
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Post by tws on Oct 27, 2007 14:35:31 GMT
We say "As a rational and accountable being, in whom do you put your trust?" Basically the same.
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