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Post by palmereldritch on Sept 19, 2007 1:49:54 GMT
I know I asked about people being members of both Masonry and Co-masonry, and how that's viewed/frowned upon/whatever, but what about other orders, such as the OTO, etc.?
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Post by hollandr on Sept 19, 2007 4:12:30 GMT
I think that as long as an order does not portray itself as Masonic then your Grand Lodge is unlikely to have an official opinion on it
That said, it may be that not all orders are clearly for the betterment of the human race. Such orders might constitute an impediment to one's inner progress in developing the qualities of a true MM
Cheers
Russell
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Sept 19, 2007 5:38:33 GMT
The OTO is in a funny situation, in that it claims to include the grades of Freemasonry, and hence, from one perspective, will be deemed quasi-masonic and dual membership prohibited in some jurisdictions.
Others will be oblivious to its claims, and see it more as akin to a form of neo-Templar ritual, and thus not prohibit membership.
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Post by Marcel on Oct 14, 2007 11:44:10 GMT
It should be said though that members of the O.T.O. do not identify as Masons, to themselves or others (exept in cases when they are both natuarally, wich is not uncommon). O.T.O regards itself as a sovereign Order with official ties only to Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica and Argentum Astrum. This is written in regards to the so called "Caliphate" O.T.O. I cant speak for the others (yes, O.T.O. has their own "irregulars" )
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Post by Antonius on Nov 17, 2007 20:55:01 GMT
i am a member of Builders Of The Adytum, wich is very different from masonry, but compatible in the sense that dual membership is not prohibited. i jokingly call it 'mailorder masonry' but its realy nothing like masonry. its more of a lesson plan designed to teach ainchent wisdom mainly trough the use of the symbols of the tarot. i suspect that this would be a good suplement for the philosophicly minded masons. check it out at: www.bota.org
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Post by leonardo on Dec 3, 2007 23:25:53 GMT
Interesting looking site and I am sure many will find it helpful. My only concern is that there are such sites out there, deliberately set up to deprive the gullible of their hard earned cash.
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Post by Antonius on Dec 4, 2007 6:09:50 GMT
well im a member of BOTA and i can tell you this one is legit. the membership is $15 per month, and the payoff is pure gold. its an order founded by Paul Foster Case after the golden dawn broke up. i also have this book by Case: www.amazon.com/Tarot-Key-Wisdom-Ages/dp/1585424919/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196745405&sr=1-1on the back cover is a quote from Manly P. Hall's 'secret teachins of all ages': "Mr Case has developed a system... superior to most" this is no cheapo new age BS divination system, its essentialy a system of mystery school teachings presented trough the symbolism of the tarot amoung other things. some of those other things include Kabbala, the hebrew alphabet, astrology, alchemy and occult numerology (the real deal, not new age BS). and offcourse divination, though in this system amoung the most mundane of uses is still on the menu and in that respect i dont know of anything more powerfull then this system. as far as im concerend i have never spent my money as wisely in my entire life as i do each month when i pay my $15.
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Post by leonardo on Dec 4, 2007 8:04:01 GMT
I am delighted you feel you are receiving much benefit as a subscriber to this particular website, long may this be the case. I was merely highlighting the fact that there are unscrupulous characters out there who prey on the guilable. I'm sure you'll appreciate such people exist.
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Post by Antonius on Dec 19, 2007 11:45:07 GMT
yeah i know what u mean, snakeoil salesmen everywhere.
ime BOTA is nothing like that, and offers lots of good stuff for a bare minimum cost.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Dec 19, 2007 13:24:56 GMT
Brother Antonius, When the BOTA started there organization, where did they set up their headquarters? colorado? Is the system taught by the BOTA simialr to the teachings of the Brotherhood of Light(now Church of Light)?
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Dec 19, 2007 13:29:01 GMT
I found it funny how we met so much resitance trying to raise our dues from $50/yr to $150/yr Freemasons fought to NOT pay $12.50/month to be a Freemason. Brother Antonius, like the Rosicrucians, the brotherhood of light, and bOTA and others, they have taken the ancient knowledge and have put them into applicable systems that can actually effect and change ones life if followed and implemented. I have a great interest in these other systems of enlightenment.
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Post by Antonius on Dec 19, 2007 16:01:21 GMT
i dont know much about the history, but the current HQ is in Los Angeles:
5101 No. Figueroa St. P.O. Box 42278 LA, California 90042-3954
im not familiar with the brotherhood of light, so im afraid i cant comment on that. i started BOTA last spring and so far the emphasis has been on tarot, kabbalah, the hebrew alphabet and jungian psychology. the first lessons i got were alot like deepak chopra's '7 spiritual laws', and after that i got intro to tarot, and then tarot fundementals wich are about the major arkana. an example of how it works: one lesson i got was about the high priestess wich symbolises conciousness and the book on her lap symbolises memory. then it explains some things about how memory works and how to access the subconciouss and things like that. the lesson about the 'strength' card explains how to approach a problem productively by explaining that the symbol (a lion led by the mouth by a girl) shows 2 forms of strength, and that real power is power over the self. it has a quote that reads: "to overcome an adversary is to make him you ally"
there is a system where each card is associated with a hebrew letter, a number, an astrological sign, an alchemical symbol and even colors and tones. so far thats what ive been doing, but i just started and later there will be lessons about the tree of life and what they call the 'cube of space' wich is kind of a symbolic representation of the universe made by drawing a cube and placing the hebrew letters in the cube, and other things like that. at the end of lessons there is a kind of exam with some questions that u have to answer and mail to the HQ. hopefully that gives an idea of what it is.
wow. we dutch have a reputation for being cheap, but... wow. im unemployed and broke all the time but even i can squeese off 150, even in euro's.
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Post by maat on Dec 19, 2007 22:34:16 GMT
BOTA sounds great. They have a really good internet site also. Anyone else here a member and like to comment on the Builders Of The Adytum?
Builders again!
Maat
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Post by xiii on Dec 19, 2007 22:43:15 GMT
I am, and I am also quite happy with the lessons. I will be going from 'Introduction to Tarot' to 'Tarot Fundamentals' next. Paul Foster Case was also a freemason, btw. (sorry if this has already been mentioned).
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Post by Marcel on Dec 31, 2007 0:24:15 GMT
In Esoteric circles BOTA are well known and respected and if they should be compaired to anything (wich they shouldnt) i guess AMORC would be the closest. AMORC also is a bit "mailorder" in the sence that they send out lessons to their members. They do however have Temple Initiations and thus Degree work similar (and dissimilar) to Masonry. BOTA have group work but i´m not sure if they are Initiatory. When it comes to Odd Fellow (IOOF) they have female Lodges called Rebeckah. Rebeckah Lodges have their own Degrees and Regalia. In Sweden they are female only (if i´m not wrong males can recieve the Degrees in the US) Switzerland , or was it Austria(?), is the only place i know of that has Co Odd Fellowship. They are still seen as regular though. Most Orders have nothing against membership in other Orders as long as they dont contradict each other (like a member of the Knight Templars also being a member of some atheist Order, or a member of a Temperence Order also being a member of a Bacchanalian Order ) In fact, some Orders in wich i was a member (simutaniously) ask in their Initiations (1:st Degree) "Are you a member of any other Orders?" Answer: "Yes." "Are you fulfilling your duties toward them?" Or something similar. Thus indicating that fulfilling your obligations to other Orders is seen as a plus to the new Order even if they are not affiliated in any way.
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Post by Antonius on Dec 31, 2007 1:46:39 GMT
they are not initiatory, the ones in my area consist of study and kabbalistic meditation. there is however a simple initiation ritual that we are supposed to do at home.
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Post by palmereldritch on Mar 28, 2008 2:24:00 GMT
I think that as long as an order does not portray itself as Masonic then your Grand Lodge is unlikely to have an official opinion on it That said, it may be that not all orders are clearly for the betterment of the human race. Such orders might constitute an impediment to one's inner progress in developing the qualities of a true MM Cheers Russell I've been thinking over this the past few months - and it looks like Lon Milo DuQuette, who is a very high profile guy, is both (and very high ranking in the OTO, as well, although I forget what he does exactly) and seems to be a very upstanding guy from what I can tell, so maybe it's not a concern... I forgot all about him when I formulated this question at first. I was reminded when I recently heard him talk on a podcast. Thanks for all the feedback, though. Oh, and BTW, he also mentioned BOTA, IIRC - and it may have been his introduction to the esoteric.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Mar 28, 2008 16:55:09 GMT
The OTO seems to be pretty big. I was interested up until the point it was clear that in order to be a member of the order I had to be a member of the church.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Mar 28, 2008 17:03:28 GMT
I've read much of Case's work and I recently signed up at BOTA. What I've seen of it, so far, is that BOTA is an excellent organization and many of its members are Freemasons. However, though Case was a Freemason, I've seen nothing from BOTA that suggests the organization considers itself Masonic.
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Post by palmereldritch on Mar 28, 2008 19:26:27 GMT
The OTO seems to be pretty big. I was interested up until the point it was clear that in order to be a member of the order I had to be a member of the church. Are we talking about the same OTO? What church do you have to be a member of?
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