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Post by Antonius on Nov 26, 2007 22:34:11 GMT
Ok the previous attempt kinda started me off on the wrong foot there. so first let me apologise to any1 i might have offended. i over reacted. simple phrase, but each word has meaning. I: as usual, it is ego that is the problem. my ego percieved a threat and responded defensively. over: your intentions (though the road to hell is paved with them) were obviously good, and emotion overruled judgement. reacted: when emotion overrules judgement one is not acting conciously, one is merly reacting. it is this difference that makes us human.
second i realise i still have a vague notion at best of what masonry expects of a person, and what it considers to be virtues appropriate for an aspirant.
what are the key virtues by wich one can measure oneself as to wether or not one is ready to petition?
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Post by maat on Nov 26, 2007 23:19:40 GMT
what are the key virtues by wich one can measure oneself as to wether or not one is ready to petition? It is very hard to measure one's self, it is more reliable to look at how others react to your presence. Ask yourself a few questions like these. How many true friends do you have? Do people ask your advice when they need help? Are you a caring member of your own family? Do you go out of your way to help anyone in obvious need, even if you do not know them? Do you like yourself? Thats the biggie... and if you really like yourself and your efforts you will find you like others (for the most part ). And liking yourself is not being big headed, it is acknowledging that even though imperfect, you are working your way steadily towards self improvement and ultimate perfection (this life or next or 100 down the track). If you can see this in yourself then you will recognise that same thing in others. People who see no room for improvement in themselves are the very worse candidates for Freemasonry. Maat
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Post by Antonius on Nov 27, 2007 2:31:42 GMT
mmm i dont think i score to well on your list there.
i dont realy have any true friends, unless i count family. and i dont have much of that either.
the only real family ive ever known are my mother, aunt and grandparents. the granparents are dead, i have a good but extremely shallow relationship with my aunt, and though my mom can understand me better then any1 she admits that half the things coming out of my mouth are very challanging.
then theres my extended family wich consists of 1 ex-stepsister who i do have a deep connection with, as she is also going trough a period of great change and growth aswell. then theres my adopted brother, he and i grew apart, and our relationship is very shallow now too. both of them ive known since my teenage years. then theres my mom's ex husband, who is like a bear. big and good natured, but rather unevolved.
i do believe in helping any1 who truely needs it, in fact im a strong believer in the simple notion that: 'is something is just, then by virtue of it, it must be done'. on the other hand i am very uncompromising. if some1 rubs me the wrong way i can be very cold.
for instance: im in line at the supermarket, and an old man behind me grunts the name of a brand of cookies at me. in this situation the old guy can go to hell. that man takes advantage of his weakness to order people around, and needy as he may be, i dont submit to people who dont at least treat me like a human being.
is that too harsh?
then again on the other hand, once as a kid i was asked for directions, and by mistake sent the person off in the wrong tram. i had an oppertunity to correct my mistake but for some reason i didnt. i was 12 at the time, and the memory of it still kinda bothers me to this day.
as for liking myself, there was a time not to long ago when i didnt. but thats is behind me now.
liking others isnt realy the probem either, im not realy mad at people, just frustrated with the ones around me and that spills over. theres alot of reasons, but ive come to resent shallowness and materialism to such a degree that i have gotten rid of my TV because i felt insulted by it. the feeling became so strong that watching it made me physicly nauseaus. and thats one of the reasons im attracted to masonry, because it has people who care about stuff that is worth it, and interested in what is beneath the surface.
also writing this im realising ive never realy had any role models. none that were any good anyways.
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Post by maat on Nov 27, 2007 3:35:50 GMT
then again on the other hand, once as a kid i was asked for directions, and by mistake sent the person off in the wrong tram. i had an oppertunity to correct my mistake but for some reason i didnt. i was 12 at the time, and the memory of it still kinda bothers me to this day. as for liking myself, there was a time not to long ago when i didnt. but thats is behind me now. May I suggest that it still bothers you today because you are still sending yourself off in the wrong direction and still ignoring opportunities as and when they arise. (In all fairness, opportunities do disguise themselves fairly well, often as catastrophes ) It is really good news that you are starting to recognise that lovely hidden light within yourself. Why don't you trust this beautiful part of you to make more decisions in your daily life... who knows what might happen. I can guarantee you that the outcome will be good. Bit of hint re grumpy men and other rude and obnoxious people ... they are just having problems with their hidden lights ... when Masons meet on the Square, it is not the personalities that are equal, it is the Light within them that is the same. If you are willing to persevere with the work you have already started upon yourself, I see no reason why you would not make a very fine mason in the future. Work first though. One day at a time. In the meantime, you can learn much from this forum (one way or the other ) avail yourself of all that appeals to you. Everyone has something to teach us. Look, see, listen, try ... Maat
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Post by Antonius on Nov 30, 2007 13:14:19 GMT
uknow, there was never a time when i was not aware of the light. i was born with that awareness, and i was figureing out confusius's idea of 'the more i lern, the more i lern that i am ignorant) at 8 years old.
i think one of my main frustrations at the present is that ive outgrown everyone around me, and have become stagnated in my development.
you have no idea what it is like to have to submit to significantly lesser minds every day of your life from childhood on. or what its like to realise at 30 that the reason u didnt do so well in school was not because it was hard, but because it wasnt hard enuff. to realise 2 decades were waster because none of the so called professionals recognised your potential. or how about the knoweldge, not even a feeling, the absolute knoweldge that there is simply no1 around that is capable of understanding 99% of your thoughts.
or how about seeing people race towards misery without being able to show them it isnt neccecery.
my problem is not the light, its the fact that i cant do anything with it.
u may have noticed that ive calmed down alot since the initial post i made. what is lacking in my real life, is exactly what im getting a bit of here. interaction with people who can offer me something other then the 'cow in the headlights' stare. at least you guys will understand some of the things i say, and some of the ways u disagree with me actualy do fall into the catagory of relevant and usefull feedback.
normaly when i try to express some deeper thought i get reactions to everything but the point im actualy trying to make.
like id make a comment on the tires of a car, and the person would shower me with specs on how the engine behaves and i have to spend 2 hours explaing that thats not what im talking about.
a similar thing is happening in the mind thread were people are talking about deep meanings of a tarot card i mentioned, completely missing what i intended to say about it.
i have a 140 iq, but only recently discovered this, and i never lerned to communicate complicated ideas. im kinda like a pentium 4 running on 8mb of RAM...
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Post by leonardo on Nov 30, 2007 13:22:03 GMT
you have no idea what it is like to have to submit to significantly lesser minds every day of your life from childhood on.... Do you really feel so superieur? If so, Freemasonry may not provide much benefit.
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Post by Antonius on Nov 30, 2007 20:04:23 GMT
theres no point in denying the obvious. i have 30 to 40 points on the average person around me. numbers dont lie, and neither does that dull blank stare.
but no i dont feel like im better then other people if thats what u mean. i feel superior in a few ways, and inferior in others. ultimatly people are way to complex to make judge in that way. but i know i am smarter, and having to submit to average and dumb people all the time is no fun i can tell you.
imagine being ruled by children. you know you know better, but u better keep your mouth shut. and u better do what your told, no matter how stupid it is, cuz if u dont u lose your job, your house etc etc.
seriously, try to imagine that. because thats the world ive lived in my entire life.
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Post by leonardo on Nov 30, 2007 20:25:40 GMT
If I am to be honest Freemasonry may not be right for you, at least not in the sense you seem to be seeking it for. I wish you luck, all the same.
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Post by Antonius on Nov 30, 2007 21:12:41 GMT
dude you seem to be missing the point of the entire conversation. this is not about my reasons for being a mason, this is about the things that stand in my way.
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Post by wayseer on Nov 30, 2007 21:49:46 GMT
Antonium - Freemasonry begins in the heart - not the head - you are intellectualising. Your intelligence (?) may be high but in all honesty who cares - I rather be dull than have the problems that you have laden on yourself.
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Post by leonardo on Nov 30, 2007 22:02:51 GMT
dude you seem to be missing the point of the entire conversation. this is not about my reasons for being a mason, this is about the things that stand in my way. Seems to me, and you'll appreciate I am only going by what you post, that whatever is standing in your way is placed there by yourself. Bro. John I feel has hit the nail on the head and sometimes there is a danger of over intellectualising things when all that's really needed is to follow your heart.
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Post by Antonius on Nov 30, 2007 22:16:28 GMT
see this is exactly what i mean.
i spend several posts trying to explain something, and this is the reaction i get. totaly irellevant, and in fact contrary to something i allready litteraly said.
see my dilemma any1? i cant even talk about my problem without making people angry for making them feel inferior...
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Post by leonardo on Nov 30, 2007 22:20:52 GMT
see this is exactly what i mean. i spend several posts trying to explain something, and this is the reaction i get. totaly irellevant, and in fact contrary to something i allready litteraly said. see my dilemma any1? i cant even talk about my problem without making people angry for making them feel inferior... Oh, don't flatter yourself, no-one here feeling inferior Nor for that matter am I upset with you. I appreciate life is a struggle and for some of us more so. I wish you well.
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Post by wayseer on Nov 30, 2007 23:22:47 GMT
Mulla Nasrudin was watching a pelican practice landing. The huge bird came in first at a graceful glide with its wings extended then seemed to hang in the air as it held a stall momentarily before reaching down with its webbed feet for a landing - only to end up in a pile of dust and feathers.
The Mulla watched serve more unsuccessful attempts before walking over to the bird,
'Nice approach. Great style. Every tried that on water?"
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Post by tws on Nov 30, 2007 23:46:42 GMT
Antonius, only you will know when you are ready. You must be a Mason in your own heart before ever you are made one in Lodge. Only you are able to judge your own level of maturity and your level of commitment, because you are the one in charge of your own destiny. Make your own preception of reality happen!
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Post by Antonius on Dec 2, 2007 13:13:58 GMT
uknow what i feel like, i feel like a realy small guy with a realy big power tool. i guess what needs to change can probably be best described thusly: Oh, don't flatter yourself, no-one here feeling inferior
Nor for that matter am I upset with you.
I appreciate life is a struggle and for some of us more so. well thats the default reaction im used to. like i said, most people i know would be seriously challanged by a forum like this. thxz for not freaking out one me i know its not cool to be coming in here talking about 'im so smart' etc. but i guess i do it partly to reafirm to myself that im not crasy. when people around you dont ever understand what you try to say, eventualy u start to think so uknow... also there is the need to know that my ideas can live in places other then my own head. perhaps thats what the 'missed opertunities' from Maat's post are about... anyways im not the egomaniac im sounding like right now. in fact my attitude towards this forum is mostly one of childlike entheausiasm. so thanx for putting up with my cr@p, i do very much appreciate it.
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Post by hollandr on Dec 2, 2007 19:52:29 GMT
>theres no point in denying the obvious. i have 30 to 40 points on the average person around me. numbers dont lie, and neither does that dull blank stare.
Antonius
Many years ago I lived in a spiritual community and I recall one occasion when the construction crew downed tools because they said I thought that the electrical work I was doing was more important. And while I had never said it, that was certainly what I thought
I meditated for a while on this and was told: "any specialness you may have does not reside in the mind - therefore it is not proper for the mind to play with that concept"
And about 20 years later I realised that was true. My mind was better than average but the mind was not the focus of whatever I have to contribute to the planet.
Of course it took a lot of effort for me to become functional beyond the mind.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by leonardo on Dec 2, 2007 20:25:33 GMT
Antonius, if I may, and if you haven't read it already I'd like to recommend a book called Siddhartha by Herman Hesse. It's about a man who was born at the same time as Lord Buddha. What's interesting is that his life in many ways shadows that of the Wise one and explains his struggles and ultimately how he overcomes them. I believe you might well benefit from reading this incredible story.
I certainly did.
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Post by maat on Dec 2, 2007 23:41:44 GMT
but no i dont feel like im better then other people if thats what u mean. i feel superior in a few ways, and inferior in others. ultimatly people are way to complex to make judge in that way. but i know i am smarter, and having to submit to average and dumb people all the time is no fun i can tell you. ;D Tell me about it! Said affectionately.... and with an Aussie accent.... "Get over yourself, Antonius, most of the people in the world feel exactly as you do!!! Oh - and the IQ rating.... I'm up there with you mate... but you know what? "Does having a high IQ score guarantee success in later life? No, it doesn’t! It doesn’t even guarantee success in school. It measures your POTENTIAL. What IQ tests measure is a certain type of potential. That potential still needs to be developed and nurtured by the person who has it. That person may not have the inclination or desire to do so. Not everyone who has a potential talent also possesses the desire to do something with it." iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq07.htmIt seems you have all this potential but lack the discipline to round it up and use it for the betterment of yourself and your fellow man. I think somewhere in the holy books it says something about 'to he whom much is given, much is expected'. Use it or lose it... in modern day idiom. Now, quit whinging, I'm starting to think of you as a POM. ;D ;D ;D Uh-ho ... here come the POM's... Maat
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Post by leonardo on Dec 3, 2007 7:40:55 GMT
Bro. Maat, whatever you're on please send some my way
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