tino
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Post by tino on Dec 8, 2006 15:56:24 GMT
Greetings fellow seeker of truth ;D Maybe you will find inspiration and usefull information in my article about Kabbalah? It is divided into two parts. Some key-sentences for them are: Part I: How the kabbalistic symbols describes the evolving manifestation of God (theogenesis). Why the Torah is a blueprint for our western personality and has let mankind away from divinity. The name of God, YHWH, its relation to magic and why it was removed from the Torah. Part II: The evolving manifestation of God is analogous to the development of the ego. How the right and left brain hemispheres is connected to our ego, and to the schism present in man: The schism between the ego and an earlier type of consciousness. This schism is the key reason for the sufferings in the world today, when a person overcomes this schism he or she helps overcoming suffering in the world. If this catches your interest you can find the article on this link: colline.dk/Kabbala.htmlEnjoy tino
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Post by ariel on Dec 8, 2006 20:56:16 GMT
Thanks, tino. As a psychologist, I found the article most interesting even though there are some reservations on my part as to the to the schism and right/left hemisheres of the brain. Kind regards, Ariel
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 9, 2006 12:43:18 GMT
Hello ariel... thanks for your interest.
If we disregard the right/left hemisphere hypothesis, then what about the schism between the two types of consciousness?
Do you agree that there exists two kinds of consciousness? ... if we call them the non-ego and the ego-consciousness then, as I see it, the non-ego consciousness is expressed through animals, small children and maybe plants as well. The ego-consciousness is expressed through the adult human... it is reflexive and 'thoughtfull' ... and also expressed in time.
However, the adult can also express the non-ego consciousness, but since it is another realm of consciosness, he has no recollection of the other (the ego) consciousness and vice versa... an inherent "personality-split" in all adults which our own ego "cover up"... can only be exposed like for instance with the experiment made on split-brain patients as described in the article.
Would very much like to hear your view of this! .... as well as other members of course
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Post by ariel on Dec 9, 2006 19:21:24 GMT
Hi, tino ! These two kinds of consciousness = purely hypothetical and cannot be verified scientifically, but if we are to view the hypothesis and examine the results in esoteric language, I would have no problem with that. I do find the subject very interesting and one that can be discussed in the right thread with much more input, I am sure. Kind regards, Ariel.
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Post by hollandr on Dec 10, 2006 4:34:23 GMT
From my point of view the human has more than two types of consciousness, for example, is the consciousness that blinks the eye to protect it from an object, the same as the consciousness that experiences "love at first sight"
And what is the consciousness that "sleeps on a problem"?
As for whether these things are scientific, it may depend on who first taught their science to us. There may be more sciences of consciousness than are readily accepted by scientists of matter
Cheers
Russell
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Post by hollandr on Dec 10, 2006 4:44:15 GMT
Tino
Not, being particularly drawn to accounts of the kabbalah, I have not read your article in any detail. But I did note some statements in there that seem to me be to over-emphasize the separation of the creation from the creator.
"According to the Kabbalists there are only one God, one creator" I wonder if humans are allowed to be co-creators in that tradition.
"Therefore there is only one possibility if a sterile structure are to be made creative: God himself must reside in the structure"
Again I think that this statement is a bit simplified. And indeed I wonder if the dark side of the Tree is not capable of creating in its own way.
I have had some experience of artificial entities. And I am pretty sure I did not see God in them
Cheers
Russell
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 10, 2006 14:50:25 GMT
From my point of view the human has more than two types of consciousness, for example, is the consciousness that blinks the eye to protect it from an object, the same as the consciousness that experiences "love at first sight" And what is the consciousness that "sleeps on a problem"? As for whether these things are scientific, it may depend on who first taught their science to us. There may be more sciences of consciousness than are readily accepted by scientists of matter Cheers Russell In a state of sleeping conciousness maybe we could be just resting our body for recovery whilst our "conciousness" carries on working hence "sleeping on a problem" may be just a way that the conciousness handles these delicate matters without the disturbance and distractions of our "awake conciousness" ? I have often resolved many a problem after resting the body and letting the mind or conciousness put all into perspective and sensible reasoning. Just a thought ? Try sleeping on it
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 10, 2006 16:47:58 GMT
From my point of view the human has more than two types of consciousness, for example, is the consciousness that blinks the eye to protect it from an object, the same as the consciousness that experiences "love at first sight" And what is the consciousness that "sleeps on a problem"? Maybe so... however I still hold the view that the different kinds of consciousness can be divided into two inherently different types: 1) One connected to the earth, to "pure being", focused on the eternal now 2) The other connected to human culture, thoughts, language, reflections, past-future focused And maybe to a third - blooming - type: The synthesis between these two (I believe the purpose of our creation, is to manifest this synthesis) The consciousness that makes the eye blink is then (1) .. the love at first sight is ...hmmm.. I think its connected to the third category The sleep-consciousness is connected to (1) ... although I'm not certain there either
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 10, 2006 16:59:14 GMT
Tino "According to the Kabbalists there are only one God, one creator" I wonder if humans are allowed to be co-creators in that tradition. As I understand the tradition, they believe that everything is God... the universe is a result of the self-contemplation of a Great Being... we exist in the mind of this being. When we developed ego-consciousness this was the 'original sin' which inflicted 'damage to the Deity'... A schism emerged in the mind of this great being: Two types of consciousness forever separated. So when humans create, think or do anything, we do so as agents for God, we are God. However: We often use the alienated part of his consciousness as the 'water we swim in'. There is a dark side... yes.. but this is the result of 'the damage done to the Deity' ... it is the alienated part of His consciousness.... the artificial entities you experienced would then be agents for the alienated part of Gods mind/ thoughts.
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Post by hollandr on Dec 10, 2006 22:12:11 GMT
>but this is the result of 'the damage done to the Deity' ... it is the alienated part of His consciousness....
How do we test this proposition?
Is it part of a theology and therefore not to be tested?
Or does Masonic Science permit us to generate metaphysical experiments?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Dec 11, 2006 0:34:03 GMT
Fascinating thread - thank you Tino!
I am particularly interested in Left Brain/Right Brain and working towards balance/integration. The whole idea behind meditation so far as I can tell.
Whenever I have 'a revelation' type or otherwise significant dream the scene always appears more to my left. My two clairaudient experiences were via the left ear (?).
Living in the mind of God ("by whose Great Thought the Universe created) could explain how new (verifiable) information can come to people. Mind you, if all is in the Mind of God that means mind to mind (of the non God type) communication can and does occur.... thus the vast number of books out there at present the the Force, the Field etc etc.
Maat
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 12, 2006 20:39:16 GMT
Great to find someone who shares the interest! ;D
Russell, you ask if it is possible to test the hypothesis that God has a "personality-split"? Interesting thought... but I have no clue how it can be done. But I DO think that a dialogue like this one, can bring about an inner knowing (gnosis) that this and that is true or not true.
In Dion Fortunes book about the Cosmos, she writes (my translation from danish):
"This is how creation takes place: "And God made man in his own image and likeness". A universe is a concept in the mind of a Great Being. It is created through the self-contemplation of a Great Being."
If this statement is assumed to be true and used as a working hypothesis, then I reach the following conclusions:
- The universe is a concept, a thought, in the mind of a Great Being - The human being, as a part of the universe, is a concept in the mind of a Great Being
Okay... if this is the case, what then is the fall from grace? ... the sin?... the terrible apple bite?
In the lurian kabbalah they write it like this:
original sin consisted essentially in this: that damage was done to the Deity
What was this original sin? This damage done to the Deity?
Could it be the development of our ego-consciousness?
Let's assume for a moment that this is in fact the original sin, and see where this takes us....
Suddenly a part of the creation wakes up... maybe in the middle of eating dinner... and thinks What the Hell am I doing here?
How can this be so bad? The Kabbalist describe it as a 'Cosmic Catastrophe'.. in other traditions they describe it as the separation of the World Parents (which was very bad according to the myths... although (because?) it meant the creation of our present world).
The bad thing was that a part of the mind of this Great Being, was now separated from the source
A personality split emerged... a total different kind of consciousness, which existed in its own Realm so to speak.
ASSUMING this to be true.... then using the initial hypothesis "And God made man in his own image and likenesS" then we should all suffer from this same split consciousness! Is this possible? Wouldn't we know if we had a split personality? Two conscious REalms taking turns in using our body... Dr. Jekyll brushes teeth in the morning.... and Mr. Hide takes over when showing up at work?
Maybe the personality split is more subtle, like if the shift between Jekyll and Hide happens many times pr. minute? ... I'm not sure exactly how it works, I just know it is there!
Look at a small child. Is this child using the same or a similar realm of consciousness as the small child next to it? Yes, I would say.
Now is the small child using the same realm of consciousness as you and me? (as adults) No, I would say. We adults behave very different from a small child (at least when we're sober), ... society calls it growing up, but I would call it using a total different REalm of consciousness.... the realm of the ego-consciousness. We can still momentarily use the same source as the small child, but afterwards we always rationalize the experience... explain it somehow because the entity that explains what just happened (looking at the art or what-ever was created) had really nothing to do with creating it!
It is Mr. Hide looking at the work of Dr. Jekyll, and covering up that he was not the creator!
Again: ASSUMING this personality split to exist in this Great Being and hence also in us, then how is this breach healed? How is harmony re-established?
The breach or schism can only be healed by creating a synthesis of these two. Just cutting off one of the two conditions (if this was possible), would be like cutting off an arm. This synthesis can only be brought forth through a Being who has access to both these types of consciousness, who can - so to speak - contain both of them. This is what the Great Being is striving to develop in its self, and we can follow the progress in the development of mankind... We are the attempt from this Great Being to heal itself!
A key sentence in the Lurian Kabbalah is:
"Man is not only the end purpose of creation, nor is his dominion limited to this world alone, but on him depends the perfection of the higher worlds and of God himself."
Amen... lets do it! ;D
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Post by maat on Dec 12, 2006 23:16:53 GMT
;D
You might find a meaning for the crossed wands over the head here... the middle pillar and the two pillars for that matter... the Star in the East... Royal Arch...
Made me think of a beautiful bubble that grows so large that it naturally splits into smaller modules.. which made me think of all the colours of the initial bubble that automatically are transferred to the smaller modules...
Ramblings of a small mind - but it does help me get my head around superior concepts.
Maat
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Post by hollandr on Dec 13, 2006 1:31:15 GMT
>A universe is a concept in the mind of a Great Being.
Tino
This is likely correct as far as it goes. But recall that our god is a god of love. We do not say that our god is a thinker.
Hence there is more to creation than the mind of god (the 3rd force). There is also the god of love (2nd force)
And a god of will (1st force)
In this solar system we are only up to the second force
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Dec 13, 2006 3:06:23 GMT
Will - Love/Wisdom - Intellect Father - Son - Holy Spirit 3-4-5 Triangle
? Maat
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 13, 2006 9:47:38 GMT
Russell, I agree with the "trinity" you mention... and with the keywords you ascribe to it, Maat .. except the 3-4-5 Triange: I don't understand what you mean with this(?)
Using this termonology the Great Being would then be the 3rd force (as you write) ... The 2nd force, made its manifestation in our culture with Christ... maybe it is now time for the 1st force (will) to make a manifestion in our culture?
The Gnostics mention an (evil) Demiurg - a flawed god - which our universe is created by... this is the Great Being/ 3rd force as I see it. Although an impulse was made 2000 years ago to 'set things straight', this force is still running the show in our culture... the 2nd force (Love) bubble is now about to burst and be the guiding force in our world, instead of something society merely talks about and strives for. With Love as the new foundation... Will will then be the force we strive for.
Agree?
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 13, 2006 9:55:35 GMT
I am particularly interested in Left Brain/Right Brain and working towards balance/integration. The whole idea behind meditation so far as I can tell. Agree! ... this is what I strive for too, e.g. using the Head stand exercise in yoga helps me in this... and also contemplation in connection with discussions like this The left side of the body is connected to the right hemisphere (so they tell us, the scientists).. your experience fits well with the hypothesis that the right hemisphere is connected to the 'original consciousness' ... dreams... holistic... wholeness... spiritual Yes, I believe you are right... our mind is less individual than we are brought up to believe... we all swim as small fish in an ocean of consciousness... when one fish affects the sea, it will influence the consciousness of the other fish as well, to use an image... Johan
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Post by maat on Dec 14, 2006 0:02:29 GMT
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tino
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Post by tino on Dec 14, 2006 8:34:38 GMT
You become what you fear, if you fear to become - Your words Tino... To be honest I stole them from some persons signature Ahhh... I see... thank you ;D
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Post by vadro on Dec 16, 2006 12:06:51 GMT
Hi Tino, and welcome on the Forum, Interesting article and topic. Reading at your comment here below, the Pantheism come to my mind. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Pantheism (Greek: ðÜí ( 'pan' ) = all and èåüò ( 'theos' ) = God) literally means "God is All" and "All is God". It is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent God; or that the universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that natural law, existence, and the universe (the sum total of all that is, was, and shall be) is represented or personified in the theological principle of 'God'.Do you think that this is applicable? Tino "According to the Kabbalists there are only one God, one creator" I wonder if humans are allowed to be co-creators in that tradition. As I understand the tradition, they believe that everything is God... the universe is a result of the self-contemplation of a Great Being... we exist in the mind of this being. When we developed ego-consciousness this was the 'original sin' which inflicted 'damage to the Deity'... A schism emerged in the mind of this great being: Two types of consciousness forever separated. So when humans create, think or do anything, we do so as agents for God, we are God. However: We often use the alienated part of his consciousness as the 'water we swim in'. There is a dark side... yes.. but this is the result of 'the damage done to the Deity' ... it is the alienated part of His consciousness.... the artificial entities you experienced would then be agents for the alienated part of Gods mind/ thoughts.
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