imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 22, 2008 21:49:24 GMT
Nope, t'wasn't my idea. Really, it wasn't. Bro. Steve, you've met me. I'm not 18 and blond, as many seem to think, but I'm not THAT old
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 23, 2008 9:43:23 GMT
Of course, Bro Karen, I have met you, at the Travelodge at Tolworth , Surrey and we had a meal together with Bro Cora, so I know what you look like and that you are > 18 years old.
That does not mean that I have to accept as gospel anything you post or that I have surrendered my right of dissent.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 23, 2008 17:43:48 GMT
I did not say it meant that.
Only you said that.
I'm wondering why.
I refer to all Masonic bodies as "she" because that's been an accepted convention for centuries. I didn't invent it, I simply follow it.
No one is telling you that you must accept it.
You are taking issue with me not because I accept it but because YOU feel you must, you don't want to and, for some reason, are blaming me for this feeling.
I have seen that logic before. It usually is driven by fear.
I can't imagine why it frightens you. The fact that all branches of Freemasonry - and Freemasonry herself - are female does not frighten me.
And I care not one bit what personal pronoun you use. I suspect She, likewise, does not care.
But whatever personal pronoun you use, you've no right to blame me. And, so, I wonder why you do it.
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Post by maximus on Oct 23, 2008 18:18:01 GMT
Perhaps Bro. Steve has difficulty in ascribing gender to inanimate objects and concepts? Which, taking into consideration his intrest in symbolic esotericism, is odd. I offer no criticism or explanation here, such being impossible sans a mind-reading machine. Just an observation in passing.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 23, 2008 18:30:34 GMT
Bro Karen, you are away off behind the 8 Ball as you Yanks say on this and I fear are reading far more into it than is the case.
Bro Maximus is correct up to a point. I do not like the attribution of gender to inanimate objects, to me a ship is an IT not a SHE, similarly a Country, a Church (Institution as much as building), a Lodge, a Grand Lodge, an Obedience, The Law Society etc, they are all IT in my way of speaking. I would equally dislike them being referred to as "HE". This is simply a matter of linguistic usage and preference and there is nothing remotely Esoteric or Mystical in this. I dislike giving gender to objects as I find it sentimental and schmaltzy.
Now ask yourself, why would I have left UGLE and joined LDH two years ago if I feared women in any situation of authority or power? Our Past MPGC is a woman, many of our leading Brethren are female, our current Grand Master is female, Annie Bessant was most definitely a woman, and some woman at that!
At the risk of being offensive I will use the good old British expression "Wind your neck in" as I feel you are seeing devils in this matter where none exist.
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Post by leonardo on Oct 23, 2008 19:17:22 GMT
Of course, in the French language, for example, something is either masculine or feminine. And here in Ireland it is very common to refer to inanimate objects such as cars, boats, houses as "she."
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 23, 2008 21:24:20 GMT
Very cool Wiki find, Bro. Arch!! ;D Ah, but I love the Internet
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 24, 2008 0:37:24 GMT
I think more people are using the Internet than I think. Largely because more cool stuff is being added all the time by people I don't know and likely will never meet For instance, lookie what I found today: "The Moral Design of Freemasonry" By Samuel Lawrence
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 25, 2008 8:36:46 GMT
"The Internet and Regular Freemasonry - "Generally speaking, regular Masons are reluctant. or willing, to spread light on the Internet. ... "
REALLY? Tell that to those UGLE and Malecraft Brethren who are frequent posters on MFOL, TFM, TCP, The Trestleboard, LRUK, LRUS, NOS, not to mention some excellent Lodge Websites, particularly those in the USA. And those are only the ones of which I am aware.
If anything it is the excessive secrecy (I'm not speaking about the S.T. Ws which we have sworn to keep secret) that has remained long after it was required in WW2 which may be the reason why some Brethren are diffident about using the Internet for Masonic Research.
I have had Internet access since 1997 and have learned much more from that source about Freemasonry Universal than I did previously.
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Post by leonardo on Oct 25, 2008 10:30:17 GMT
"The Internet and Regular Freemasonry - "Generally speaking, regular Masons are reluctant. or willing, to spread light on the Internet. ... "REALLY? Tell that to those UGLE and Malecraft Brethren who are frequent posters on MFOL, TFM, TCP, The Trestleboard, LRUK, LRUS, NOS, not to mention some excellent Lodge Websites, particularly those in the USA. And those are only the ones of which I am aware. If anything it is the excessive secrecy (I'm not speaking about the S.T. Ws which we have sworn to keep secret) that has remained long after it was required in WW2 which may be the reason why some Brethren are diffident about using the Internet for Masonic Research. I have had Internet access since 1997 and have learned much more from that source about Freemasonry Universal than I did previously. Good point, Steve. We are fortunate on MFOL to have much input from all branches of the Craft, including UGLE members, some of whom are among our most prominent contributors. In fact, four of them are even mods or admin here. One (Lee) set the place up
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 26, 2008 7:40:38 GMT
Has Co-Masonry or any other similar group anything like an Internet lodge that already exists in England. Ireland and Canada? From what I can make out they are light years away from anything like this ever happening. Point?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 26, 2008 9:31:59 GMT
OK. Was your post meant as a criticism of the Obediences to which it referred?
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Post by penfold on Oct 26, 2008 20:58:12 GMT
Canonbury and Sheffield are not tied to any masonic obedience, they research freemasonry, and are not within the 'mainstream' neither do they restrict themselves in their researches to just mainstream freemasonry, as far as I know.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 26, 2008 22:58:09 GMT
No. I was interested to know if any Masonic research groups actually existed outside of mainstream, fmy. It seems not. Not a fair assessment, Bro. Arch. And I think you knew that before Bro. Penfold's post. In this case, though, I suspect you are not especially interested in the truth. You simply are looking for an excuse to dismiss any Masonry you don't care to acknowledge. Any excuse you can presently live with will do nicely. You are free to do so. I suspect, though, that your mind works a bit logically for that to last very long. I recommend a rereading of the story of Jacob's struggle at Peniel. I think it would do much to help you understand your own struggle on this topic, which is the reason you came to MFOL in the first place. And to understand why you are so bothered by it at all. Until you understand (I will know when you do), I will engage you no further. Good luck to you
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Post by corab on Oct 27, 2008 12:51:33 GMT
However, I would still be interested to know what other research societies/groups exist within all of the streams of Masonry (excluding mainstream). Perhaps they are simply not needed. I don't know. I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe research is very much needed; particularly among those masonic bodies which profess to a greater inclination towards esotericism. It is one of the reasons why when I wrote my Triangle's Craft Training Programme, I started out with operative masonry. Esotericism / spirituality is all good, but in order for it to be effective and of any use to humanity, it must be anchored in firm reality. Esotericism without practical application is enjoyable and doubtlessly beneficial to the individual experiencing it, but it lacks ... something. Freemasonry becomes irrelevant if it stays within the Temple and does not come with us into our daily lives. I cannot yet answer how I would change that, but I'm working on it. I don't know how other Federations of my Order are organised in respect of research, but until a few years ago we used to have a Lodge of Research. We're toying with the thought of re-kindling it, but our resources are limited, so we have to prioritise. Trust you me, though, that I will keep it on the agenda.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 27, 2008 22:30:27 GMT
I'm sorry you see it that way. I'll keep persevering more to deserve your time and earn your respect. Bro. Arch, my respect you have. However, I perceive you to be in the early bargaining stage in your approach to women Freemasons; and not yet all that progressed from denial and anger. I've known many Malecraft Masons, online and off, who've passed thru these stages. As a rule, I don't approach them, they have to approach me. When they do, I do my best to be honest with them and assist them - so far as they want to be assisted - with their struggle. For I appreciate it very much that they perceive this struggle to be a great one, though I know that perception to be illusionary. In the end, almost all realize their opponent was themselves, their struggle had nothing to do with me and it was never, ever real. But that comes later. As they pass thru these earlier stages (especially the first two), quite a few of them, become rather insulting/condescending/abusive with me and others of our Co-Masonic Brethren. I bear it for a time, for I know them to be my Brothers. I am mindful of my Ob* and I must assist them, "so f*r as the s*me may f*irly be d*ne with*ut detrim*nt to mys*lf or my f*mily or conn*ctions". That last bit is key. I will endure being their frustration-release-toy for a time for I am Ob*ted to do so. But enduring it overlong is masochistic and, therefore, a detrim*nt to mys*lf. When it reaches that point, I stop talking to them. When I judge you further progressed in your struggle, I'll engage with you again. As I said, I've known many Malecraft Masons, online and off, who've been where you've been, where you are and where you, hopefully, are going. Based on that experience, I'm fairly certain I'll know when you've reached a point where it's safe for me to come out of the bunker. Good luck to you
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Post by southerndemolay on Aug 10, 2009 18:47:11 GMT
the plain answer imho is masonry has more spurious and unrecognized so called "rites" eventualy one day and someone will have the final say again imo the GCR
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Post by magusmasonica on Aug 10, 2009 20:13:52 GMT
the plain answer imho is masonry has more spurious and unrecognized so called "rites" eventualy one day and someone will have the final say again imo the GCR No one can have final say over the public domain.
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Post by youngwolf on Aug 12, 2009 5:42:39 GMT
Brad is correct and the GCR was created to keep people from praticing other degrees. They also have no power other than that given to them. In other words, they own no copyrights to my knowledge.
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Post by darkwolf57 on Aug 25, 2009 17:28:07 GMT
Are there spurious Degrees in Masonry? Not really... at least, not in the US. However, there are all too many groups styling themselves "Masonic" in order to mislead the Individual searching for Light in order to line these spurious groups' collective pockets and build up thei Egos. A "spurious" Degree would be one that claims to impart the first three Degrees of Masonry without Warrant or Charter. Thankfully, these groups are fairly rare, and of miniscule Membership.
These groups are a particular problem in the African-American Community, and the MWPHGLs of each State are tearing their hair out, trying to put a stop to the promulgation of further scams. The Nuwaubians (led by the incarcerated, Life-Term Felon, scammer, and child-abuser Malachi York) is a good example of where Legitimate Prince Hall Masons have nearly eradicated a blot on the good name of Freemasonry.
In over 4/5's of American Grand Lodges, Prince Hall Grand Lodges are in full Amity with their F&AM and AF&AM counterparts, and in full Recognition (that means full Visitation Rights). There's still a way to go... but I have no doubt that we will see full Recognition of PHA, in ALL Jurisdictions in the US, in the next five years or so.
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