|
Post by maat on Nov 29, 2007 0:27:35 GMT
Brn All
Are you aware that speech usually reflects that part of the body from where we are currently operating. ie I have a headache (thinking-brain).. I am so angry I can't eat right now (anger-pit of stomach) etc etc..
It seems this conversation has descended below the belt line. In esoteric terms the ties on a Masons apron are just as important a symbol as the apron itself.
May we please raise the conversation above the belt line (to the heart if possible) and at very least satisfy proficiency at the EA level. Tongue of good report and all that.
FORGET - personalities, concentrate of the pros an cons of the argument or topic at hand. Once you start attacking each other - you have lost!
Maat
|
|
vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
|
Post by vtmason on Nov 29, 2007 0:33:56 GMT
I always miss the good stuff. Brad, good luck with your blog. Hopefully as you get some Masonic experience under your belt, you will have some travels to talk about. In the meantime, I would be careful about being a spokesperson for the Grand Orient. What you have posted is not consistent with what someone close to the situation told me over the phone. I'm glad that you are excited, albeit a little too aggressive in your defensiveness. However you might want your lodge to actually be a part of the new Grand Orient before you start singing the high praises.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Nov 29, 2007 0:57:32 GMT
Leo, I think karen is referring to posts where someone described using a wrecking ball while masons were in the lodge building, a flip analogy no doubt, but still not one would expect from a mason talking about fellow masons. Brad, I've edited your posts, you have a PM as to why, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Nov 29, 2007 1:11:10 GMT
(very heavy sigh) None of this matters. Not really. Beneath the hot words remains what does matter, regardless of how much you ignore it: The GOotUS, or whatever it calls itself, will succeed ONLY if it moves forward and leaves behind what it claims it will not be. It's not a matter of all the other GLs in the world letting you go (which, so far as I can see, they are only too happy to do); it's about you letting them go. For until you do, you will remain with what you won't leave behind. And the longer you remain there, the more mired in it you will become. It is quite clear, already, that your organization's entire reason for being is to take pot shots at other GLs. Instead of recognizing your equality to them and going about your own business, we see you: - Treat other GLs and officials in those GLs with disrespect and complain about your perceptions that they don't respect you - Criticize the Masonry of those other GLs in their own quarries while your quarries remain idle - Wish death and destruction on Brothers in other GLs and, at the same time, accuse them of bullying and harrying you - Dismiss and disparage anyone who cries foul about any of the above Do you not see the pattern here? That you are becoming what you claim you are leaving behind? I gotta tell you, that comment about standing by while a wrecking ball hits a building in which Brothers are known to be still makes me shudder. If this unMasonic rhetoric is to be considered normal for your jurisdiction, then I wonder what your deeds must be like. And that I've witnessed some of those deeds . . . I will continue to watch and hope for the best for you. But until y'all stop tearing at the Masonry of others and start working on your own, even my best hopes for you will be in vain. And as you dismiss me as justs another "not friendly", I do hope it will sink in, somehow, ,that I'm actually talking to you. And I'm whispering to you counsel that others may well think but not say. And the truth I am telling you must be dealt with - or not. And the future of the GOotUS will depend on how you deal with it. Or not. Good luck. Wow Brother Karen I have to admit I am downright shocked by your stance. It seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that you would rather Champion a system where you are thought of and treated as a fake, a pretender than a system that treats you as an equal and a Freemason. It boggles the mind. "- Treat other GLs and officials in those GLs with disrespect and complain about your perceptions that they don't respect you - Criticize the Masonry of those other GLs in their own quarries while your quarries remain idle - Wish death and destruction on Brothers in other GLs and, at the same time, accuse them of bullying and harrying you - Dismiss and disparage anyone who cries foul about any of the above" Now this, pardon me is pure party line rubbish. We DO NOT CARE what other GL's think of us. We do not really take heed to thier disrespect. Now as men and as citizens of planet earth we do get a little touchy at the lack of human respect. But I do not feel this is unreasonable. We have not accused anyone of anything. If you think any different I will apologize. Perhaps a lack of comprension, not our stance on issues is leading to some misunderstanding? We wish death and destruction on NO ONE. In fact we strive for the universal advancement of the brotherhood of all mankind. Your words are unjust and an apology on your part should be issued. No one needs to cry foul or anything else about us. Disagee with us, hate us, burn us in contempt. Good for you. Do what makes you happy, that is our stance. God bless you Karen.Brad www.grandorientusa.org I think it is important to establish in what context you are acting Brad, are you the official spokesman for that organisation? I'm asking 'cos its getting very difficult to split out your views and opinions from those of GOotUS - in your reply you have replied to Karen using 'we' - suggesting a collective response.
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Nov 29, 2007 4:01:59 GMT
Brother Lauderdale, From what I understand the Grand Orient of the United States does recognize Co-Masonic and Feminine Masonic organizations as Masons. Rather or not one from any jurisdiction can visit a particular lodge is entirely up to that lodge. At least that is how I understand it.
Brandt
|
|
|
Post by therondunn on Nov 29, 2007 4:32:13 GMT
This post has been removed deliberately since it appears that fair treatment is not available here
|
|
|
Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 29, 2007 6:02:15 GMT
I received this today, and it is posted at LRUS from Br. Pfeffer: Misinformation? The constant attempts at gaslighting are getting really old.
|
|
|
Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 29, 2007 6:47:41 GMT
Wow Brother Karen I have to admit I am downright shocked by your stance. It seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that you would rather Champion a system where you are thought of and treated as a fake, a pretender than a system that treats you as an equal and a Freemason. It boggles the mind. "- Treat other GLs and officials in those GLs with disrespect and complain about your perceptions that they don't respect you - Criticize the Masonry of those other GLs in their own quarries while your quarries remain idle - Wish death and destruction on Brothers in other GLs and, at the same time, accuse them of bullying and harrying you - Dismiss and disparage anyone who cries foul about any of the above" Now this, pardon me is pure party line rubbish. We DO NOT CARE what other GL's think of us. We do not really take heed to thier disrespect. Now as men and as citizens of planet earth we do get a little touchy at the lack of human respect. But I do not feel this is unreasonable. We have not accused anyone of anything. If you think any different I will apologize. Perhaps a lack of comprension, not our stance on issues is leading to some misunderstanding? We wish death and destruction on NO ONE. In fact we strive for the universal advancement of the brotherhood of all mankind. Your words are unjust and an apology on your part should be issued. No one needs to cry foul or anything else about us. Disagee with us, hate us, burn us in contempt. Good for you. Do what makes you happy, that is our stance. God bless you Karen.Brad www.grandorientusa.org I think it is important to establish in what context you are acting Brad, are you the official spokesman for that organisation? I'm asking 'cos its getting very difficult to split out your views and opinions from those of GOotUS - in your reply you have replied to Karen using 'we' - suggesting a collective response. I am no official spokesperson, just an enthusiastic Brother. I think of the Grand Orient as my familt so it is easy to say we when speaking in regards to your family. I apologize for any confusion.
|
|
|
Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 29, 2007 6:52:44 GMT
I have to say that I haven't seen Devoutfreemanson (Bro Brad)calling for the Death and Destruction of his opponents, but it may be that I can't see it for looking. What I do see is that he ends his posts with "God Bless XXXXX" to those that have traduced him, which is a damn sight more than I would ever do in similar circumstances! We all have strong views on topics such as this, and being real people not Disneyland Characters we can sometimes give vent to them, that is part of being human and not "Plaster Saints". My own feelings, and given I would add from a purely individual and personal basis are, Good Luck to G.O, of the USA, and may Heaven aid their United Endeavors. I do not imagine that the Grand Orient of France would grant affiliation to a group of Freemasons unless it was satisfied as to their bona fides. Perhaps it would be better to leave them to develop as they will. No doubt the various Brethren thereof who post here will keep us informed from time to time as to their progress. Than k you Brother. You are once again the voice of reason.
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Nov 29, 2007 8:08:16 GMT
As for citing it . . . it's all here posted at MFOL. And elsewhere. I'm afraid I don't have the archiving skills others here have. But I can reference the various posts here by various and sundry members of and influential BB in GOotUS. And activities and posts elsewhere. For the record, I too have had occasions on this forum to ask Bro. Karen to show where I have written something she claims I have posted, only to be told on each occasion, words to the effect that, "You know what you said"—I did and it wasn't what Karen claimed.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Nov 29, 2007 8:14:49 GMT
Bro Leo. The reference to "Bizarro World" relates to DC Comics Superman. In those stories the Bizarros where imperfect replicates of Superman with similar powers. The Bizarros however had everything in reverse to normal people, to them for example a day with pouring rain was lovely , a bright sunny day was horrid etc, Gold was rubbish but domestic trash was of great value etc. No doubt there was some allegorical meaning to this but as a kid of ten I didn't pick up on it. Have a look at this www.answers.com/topic/bizarro-worldThe reference to snow in Hawaii is self explanatory I feel. Thank you Bro. Steve. Appreciate the explanation. There is much I didn't follow as a kid when reading comics back in the day.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Nov 29, 2007 9:56:31 GMT
I too have had occasions on this forum to ask Bro. Karen to show where I have written something she claims I have posted, only to be told on each occasion, words to the effect that, "You know what you said"—I did and it wasn't what Karen claimed. To err is human, to forgive, divine. Lets work on that please, bretheren all.....
|
|
|
Post by idestine on Nov 29, 2007 10:19:45 GMT
So, copying and pasting from the UGLoA website makes a blog? I am new here and looking to become a Freemason. My great grandfather was a 33rd degree Freemason. Ggrandpa was a pillar in society and I've always associated his character as exemplying that of Freemasons. But quite a bit on this board, and a post like this, seems mostly about petty bickering, and control over others to the point of being the "Blog Police", and "word police", with a few pretentious "Brother this, Brother that" thrown on top. Is this what Freemasonry has become or did I just stumble onto the wrong forum poster to get a such a bad initial impression? D
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 29, 2007 10:45:02 GMT
So, copying and pasting from the UGLoA website makes a blog? I am new here and looking to become a Freemason. My great grandfather was a 33rd degree Freemason. Ggrandpa was a pillar in society and I've always associated his character as exemplying that of Freemasons. But quite a bit on this board, and a post like this, seems mostly about petty bickering, and control over others to the point of being the "Blog Police", and "word police", with a few pretentious "Brother this, Brother that" thrown on top. Is this what Freemasonry has become or did I just stumble onto the wrong forum poster to get a such a bad initial impression? D Freemasons are no more and no less perfect than anyone else. Being a Freemason does not give anyone a passport to perfection. You have from your post 2 wonderful examples to follow , I would say you will be able to cope with a fe brothers who at a distance do not agree with each other. Welcome to the forum. For that is what this is, to exchange to interact. To be real.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Nov 29, 2007 10:54:25 GMT
Freemasons are still human beings, despite those who think we are all extra terrestrial beings with super powers. You have wondered into a disagreement that has been running for some time, and some of the posters are falling short of the ideals they should demonstrate as masons. Hence the interjection of the mods. I'm puzzled as to why you have left it so long before making your first post, having registered back in September I would have expected to see a more pertinent post than this as your first entry
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 29, 2007 11:01:33 GMT
As for citing it . . . it's all here posted at MFOL. And elsewhere. I'm afraid I don't have the archiving skills others here have. But I can reference the various posts here by various and sundry members of and influential BB in GOotUS. And activities and posts elsewhere. For the record, I too have had occasions on this forum to ask Bro. Karen to show where I have written something she claims I have posted, only to be told on each occasion, words to the effect that, "You know what you said"—I did and it wasn't what Karen claimed. What I find odd is that with what was said Karen was defending devoutfreemason in his posting of his blog saying that it was obvious where the post had come from. Now you can score 15 points if you ask for a definitive reference because it may be altered by now, you are all aware that you can edit posts so I can quote you and then find you have altered it after I quote you. On this occasion it really did not matter because the sentence was saying the guy had made it clear here and elsewhere where the information had come from. Philip if you would care to trace and quote the exact offense you wish to complain about I will bring it to the attention of the other mods on your behalf. As is the usual procedure.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 29, 2007 11:06:04 GMT
I always miss the good stuff. That's because your a bobblehead
|
|
vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
|
Post by vtmason on Nov 29, 2007 11:55:21 GMT
I think it is important to establish in what context you are acting Brad, are you the official spokesman for that organisation? I'm asking 'cos its getting very difficult to split out your views and opinions from those of GOotUS - in your reply you have replied to Karen using 'we' - suggesting a collective response. I am no official spokesperson, just an enthusiastic Brother. I think of the Grand Orient as my familt so it is easy to say we when speaking in regards to your family. I apologize for any confusion. Dude. To my knowledge the lodges of the Grand orient are 3000 miles away from you. I'm not even sure hat you have a lodge, but it must be bound to someone else.
|
|
|
Post by tws on Nov 29, 2007 12:03:55 GMT
Dude. To my knowledge the lodges of the Grand orient are 3000 miles away from you. I'm not even sure hat you have a lodge, but it must be bound to someone else. That's long distance love. ;D
|
|
vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
|
Post by vtmason on Nov 29, 2007 12:44:24 GMT
Dude. To my knowledge the lodges of the Grand orient are 3000 miles away from you. I'm not even sure hat you have a lodge, but it must be bound to someone else. That's long distance love. ;D I love my Grand Lodge. The guys there truly are my family, but that is after working with most of them for the last 5 years. (I'm the little brother that always gets the wedgie) However this whole situation seems a bit odd.
|
|