Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 28, 2007 0:53:45 GMT
Oh, please Brad... at least be honest. That is what was posted at the UGLoA site, it is what Jeff has stated, its what Tom Coste has stated, its what many members of Halcyon have stated, its what is implicit in what the current UGLoA/Grand Orient of the United States of America site (www.ugloa.com) says...
its not a matter of insecurity, really, its a matter of humor...
You say it is not important what we think, yet you spend an inordinate amount of time telling us you DO care what we think. We we we... when did you join the Grand Orient of the United States of America. When I talked to you on Monday morning, you were thinking about petitioning to a lodge under that umbrella.
So, have you demitted from Pleasanton Lodge then, and joined a lodge under their umbrella yet, or are you still holding a foot in each camp, and speaking with a frog in your pocket (we...)?
Just curious. Inquiring minds want to know.
Nope, I haven't demitted. According to your friend AT Grand Lodge (or was it his PM roomate, hmm can't remember) has told me that I should expect formal charges.
I chose the Grand Orient because it suits what I am looking for. Really, that's about it.
I have stopped arguing about it and really you should too. I have not stopped smiling since yesterday.
Nope, I haven't demitted. According to your friend Adam Kendall (or was it his PM roomate, hmm can't remember) has told me that I should expect formal charges.
No, Brad. What was stated was that charges could be a possibility if you did not dimit--for associating with an unrecognized group. This is different from expecting. If someone cares to go that route, then that's what can happen--it's within the purview of the CMC and most other obediences. This is something you could have read on your own, being a member here in CA.
Please take care to put things into proper context; you were the one to boldly query, "As for me facing Masonic Trial, when will I be served?", as if that's what you crave.
I personally do not care enough to deal with you in this way. My information to you was simply that: information for your own benefit so you do not turn it into the usual witch hunt.
Thank you and let that beautiful smile continue to shine on.
Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 28, 2007 4:11:12 GMT
my BROTHER Worshipful A K.
Lets observe the proprieties...
Let's not forget the roomate, Worshipful Past Master John Doe. ;D
Seriously folks. What I personally find exciting about the Grand Orient? Well, here are a few things:
1.) The Brothers i have met in the Grand Orient system have been the most genuine friends to me I have ever met in my life. They have all been without exception selfless and caring as well as accepting. A great group of Brothers that I am very proud of.
2.) The history. Lodge Of The Nine Sisters. Ben Franklin's discipline. The connection to the Bonapartes and the French Revolution. The GOdF has been a champion for fraternity, equality and liberty since 1733. They are quite possibly the worlds oldest civil liberty organization.
3.) the total dedication to "Laïcité."
4.) I love the way in the GO system the individual lodge is the seat of power. IMHO no one can better decide what is good for the lodge than the lodge bretheren themselves.
5.) The ability to experiance all systems of ritual. The exposure to the different works and the potential light with is awesome to me.
I wish you all the very best and I hope that the G.A.O.T.U. has blessed you on this day.
I would like to hear from the Halcyon Masons who joined Grand Orient of America to balance the equation.
Did the Grand Lodge of Ohio simply form a new Lodge with new hand-picked Officers and call it Halcyon Lodge? If so there are now two Halcyon Lodges in the City of Cleveland Ohio, the one to which Bro Theron refers and the original one which is no longer affiliated to the GL of Ohio?
There is also the matter of the Temple and who or what has legal title thereto? Respecting any matters which are either "pendent lite" or "sub judice" I would like an objective and dispassionate answer, according to the Law of the USA or the State of Ohio, as to who's actual property this building may be.
I am neither rejoicing nor bemoaning this latest twist in the tale but wish a happy future to BOTH Halcyon Lodges and their repective Brethren
Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 30, 2007 15:45:00 GMT
IN order for criminal charges to be followed someone would have had to have been arrested. You cannot sue someone into criminal charges. No one has been arrested so I would guess the talk of criminal charges to be nothing more that MS chest thumping.
The sad thing is that if the GL of OH does become the victor in all of this the Halcyon inner city youth programs will all dissapear overnight.
Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 30, 2007 17:55:34 GMT
Brad, criminal charges can be filed by the grand lodge through the criminal system by the simple expedient of presenting the facts to the appropriate district attorney or state's attorney general. Civil actions (torts) can be filed by the Grand Lodge of Ohio to enforce their legal rights (to have the assets returned to Halcyon Lodge) and for damages the actions of these men may or may not have created by their actions.
I do know the difference, and your post was an obvious attempt at obfuscation. Why can't you deal with the reality instead of going sideways into a non sequiteur?
In order for someone to face criminal charges someone has to be arrested and charged with a crime, or ordered to turn themselves in. That is the way the system works. Neither has occured so I strongly doubt this talk of criminal charges holds any water.
Brad Cofield Blue Light Special Lodge #0.99 AF&KM (Ancient Free K-Mart Masons) Troy, MI Your local neighborhood K-Mart Mason.
You can doubt it all you want... fact is, we don't know what actions the Grand Lodge has taken yet. Information can be presented at any time to the District Attorney or State's Attorney General, and they investigate at their pace. We will know soon enough if that is the course the Grand Lodge has chosen when we see these men arrested... or not.
And I am sure the civil action will be filed, though were I the Grand Master, I would start with a letter to "Halcyon Charities" informing them of the illegal actions of the men formerly members of Halcyon Lodge and demanding they return the assets or face legal action. If the "charity" acts properly and returns the assets, then no further action in that regard may be necessary. At that point it will be up to the Grand Master if he seeks damages against the former officers for breech of fiduciary trust and costs incurred in setting things right.
Meantime, the only thing we can do is sit back and watch as things are set to right in Ohio by the Grand Lodge.
And of course someone needs to be arrested Brad... is there anything else obvious you would like to add?
OK - have had a read through and there are several points I wish to make.
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Leo wisely moved this thread to the admin area to give us a chance to examine it and see if any intervention is necessary.
To the matter in hand, Halcyon. The title to Halcyon Hall is a matter that I suspect will be settled in court, I imagine at first it will be in a civil court, and if there is found to be fraudulent or criminal activity in violation of the Ohio penal code then no doubt those on the receiving end of such charges will be made aware of them.
In short, it's going to take probably 6-8 or even 12 months or more to sort it out.
My suggestion is that as a forum we leave the bretheren of both Halcyon Lodges, and the GOotUS and the GLof Ohio to resolve their differences and find closure to the matter. And may heaven aid their endevours, because by blabbing carelessly on the internet we certainly aren't .
sbs59: Can someone help me with this question. I was a Master Mason for 4 years until last year. My father died and i left the Masons as i was depressed about his death. Can i now re join a lodge?
May 21, 2019 10:07:41 GMT
The Ancient: sbs59: Were you suspended for non payment of dues? if so, square up and petition the lodge for a restatement vote. If your dues are current, your still a member. In this case, it is all about the Benjamins.
May 27, 2019 0:49:07 GMT