Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 10, 2007 2:25:36 GMT
Bro. Russell rightly observed:We may have a significant problem in our understanding of geology Indeed. Not only can strata be disrupted, they can also be wrongly dated, as your example eloquently shows—hence the need for corroboration. Christian fundamentalists look at the strata and say the geology overestimates epochs, the Hindu fundamentalists look at the same evidence and say the epochs are underestimated. While the mainstream scientific model may be imperfect, I suggest that, if either of the above fundamentalist positions were to replace the current paradigm, there would be found to be abundantly more anomalous evidence contradicting those positions than is the case with the present mainstream model. There is a bizarre notion, rife among creationists and conspiracy theorists, which suggests that the more outlandish a theory is, the more likely it is to be true!? Charles Darwin alluded to this tendency in relation to his plans to be a clergyman and the associated expectations of others (p.27), saying: It never struck me how illogical it was to say that I believed in what I could not understand, and what is in fact unintelligible. I might have said with entire truth that I had no wish to dispute any dogma; but I never was such a fool as to feel and say 'credo quia incredibile' ['I believe because it is incredible']. I'm with Darwin on this. The Voyage of Charles Darwin: His Autobiographical Writings, selected by Christopher Ralling, 1978, Ariel Books, British Broadcasting Corporation,London
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Post by hollandr on Feb 10, 2007 9:34:31 GMT
Philip
Cremo is a late comer to the debate and perhaps dealing directly with reported evidence might avoid particular beliefs about creationism and evolution - both of which may have significant flaws.
I rather liked one of Charles Fort's examples. As you may be aware he was careful to use reliable sources, often professional journals.
Here is the example, but I am not sure the text is Fort's
",, in 1856 in France. Workmen laboring in a tunnel for a railway line were cutting through Jurassic limestone when a large creature stumbled out from inside it. It fluttered its wings, made a croaking noise and dropped dead. According to the workers, the creature had a 10-foot wingspan, four legs joined by a membrane, black leathery skin, talons for feet, and a toothed mouth. A local student of paleontology identified the animal as a pterodactyl."
Here is another account
"In 1761, Ambroise Pare, physician to Henry III of France, related the following account to the Annual Register: "Being at my seat near the village of Meudon, and overlooking a quarryman whom I had sent to break some very large and hard stones, in the middle of one we found a huge toad, full of life and without any visible aperture by which it could get there. The laborer told me it was not the first time he had met with a toad and the like creatures within huge blocks of stone.""
I have been told that (some?) frogs/toads found in the middle of rocks do not have digestive systems. I suppose that makes sense - there is no food for them. But I don't know what they do for reproduction.
If true, these observations destroy half of biological science
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 10, 2007 11:12:30 GMT
Bro. RussellI too am a fan of Charles Fort. However, I do not agree with you when you say: As you may be aware he was careful to use reliable sources, often professional journals. He was scrupulously honest in ferreting-out, cataloging and publishing reports of anomalous phenomena (whether from reliable sources or not) but, at his best, he was careful not to judge or interpret those reports (including their sources), except where he was personally able to investigate. On those occasions when he expressed his opinions on second-hand reports, it often seemed to be with his tongue firmly in his cheek. He certainly did not always consider that the anomalous reports were to be accepted at face value. He sometimes hinted at the possibility of less literal meanings, as when he wrote about one of his favorite subjects, showers of living things—including fish and frogs, ('Lo!', The Complete Books of Charles Fort, p.544), saying: We shall pick up an existence by its frogs.
Wise men have tried other ways. They have tried to understand our state of being, by grasping at its stars, or its arts, or its economics. But if there is an underlying oneness of all things, it does not matter where we begin, whether with stars, or laws of supply and demand, or frogs, or Napoleon Bonaparte. One measures a circle, beginning anywhere.
I have collected 294 records of showers of living things.
Have I?
Well, there's no accounting for the freaks of industry. I suspect many of his followers lack his utterly open-minded approach to his subjects. Indeed, Fort appeared to have been wary of others taking up his peculiar interests. Just as Jesus was not a Christian, so too we find that Fort was not a Fortean. In an introduction to The Complete Books of Charles Fort, (1974, Dover Publications, New York), Damon Knight wrote (p.xiii): In 1931, when Tiffany Thayer and Aaron Sussman founded the Fortean Society, Fort had to be tricked by mendacious telegrams into attending the celebratory banquet. He said he would not join the organization himself, "anymore than I'd be an Elk."
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Post by hollandr on Feb 11, 2007 2:04:52 GMT
Philip
I guess I have run out of interesting data
Cheers
Russell
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Post by wayseer on Feb 11, 2007 3:34:09 GMT
I guess I have run out of interesting data .... and just when it was getting interesting. You guys just blow me away with your knowledge.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 15, 2007 1:19:17 GMT
"Just as Monarch butterflies require certain plants to provide the catalyst for their metamorphosis, the "Book of Thoth" described plants that initiated a process of metamorphosis or "superbiology" for the advancement of the human Spirit-Soul, the Ka, into it's higher dimensional form."
Is there a physical Tree of Life?
That would be something worth veiling
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 15, 2007 1:56:27 GMT
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Post by maat on Feb 15, 2007 2:32:06 GMT
"Just as Monarch butterflies require certain plants to provide the catalyst for their metamorphosis, the "Book of Thoth" described plants that initiated a process of metamorphosis or "superbiology" for the advancement of the human Spirit-Soul, the Ka, into it's higher dimensional form." Is there a physical Tree of Life? That would be something worth veiling I have always assumed that the our bodies are our physical Tree of Life.... well it has a trunk for a start Then you have the supernals, which are thought of as residing the in the head. The conscious, subconscious and superconscious. Daath the throat Geburah and Chesad the cross bar of the Tau and the Christian cross (Kether-Malkuth the other line). Think of the words of the Sign of the Cross. Tipareth the heart. Yesod/Malkuth relate to the lower half of the body. ... and I don't know about your Tree of Life but mine should definately be veiled ;D Maat
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Post by maat on Feb 15, 2007 2:34:56 GMT
Back to veiling - you can find that the penalties attached to the various degrees have some hidden significance if you follow the above model.
Maat
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Post by wayseer on Feb 15, 2007 2:42:53 GMT
Back to veiling - you can find that the penalties attached to the various degrees have some hidden significance if you follow the above model. Interesting - could you elaborate.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 15, 2007 3:59:08 GMT
>I have always assumed that the our bodies are our physical Tree of Life....
The ToF certainly fits on the human body and on other things
But that does not exclude the notion of substances (water of life and bread of life) being used to trigger physical and etheric changes in the human body - of which immortality may be only one symptom
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 16, 2007 7:43:28 GMT
Bro. Russell"Just as Monarch butterflies require certain plants to provide the catalyst for their metamorphosis, the "Book of Thoth" described plants that initiated a process of metamorphosis or "superbiology" for the advancement of the human Spirit-Soul, the Ka, into it's higher dimensional form." Do you mean Crowley's book, the Conan novel or the Egyptian Book of Thoth? If the latter, where may one obtain a copy?
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Post by hollandr on Feb 16, 2007 7:47:05 GMT
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 16, 2007 8:14:51 GMT
Russell Finding even fragments of the legendary 42 Books of Thoth would indeed be newsworthy. It seems your source is confusing them with the Coffin Texts.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 16, 2007 22:23:23 GMT
Philip
I was more interested in the quoted content about using plant material to trigger a metamorphosis in the human system
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 17, 2007 2:01:37 GMT
Bro. Russell,I was more interested in the quoted content about using plant material to trigger a metamorphosis in the human system Then I refer you back to my one of earlier post on this thread: For one opinion ... see John Allegro's, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross However, I would caution readers by referring to a notice, posted on a wall of a local hospital, which read: If you take mind altering substances, don't be surprised if they alter your mind. Indeed, the Fly Agaric mushroom, Amanita muscaria, of which Allegro writes, can be deadly.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 17, 2007 3:51:07 GMT
I am not sure that mushrooms produce positive long term effects let alone the metamorphosis of the caterpillar to butterfly type suggested by the original text
What we are looking for here I suspect is a physical Tree of Life that triggers immortality and perhaps triggers the capacity to express higher wisdom
This is recorded in traditions as the bread of life and the water of life and both seem connected to alchemy
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 17, 2007 5:44:22 GMT
Bro. Russell,I am not sure that mushrooms produce positive long term effects let alone the metamorphosis of the caterpillar to butterfly type suggested by the original text Well that was Allegro's thesis in the context of Middle Eastern fertility cults, which for him—a biblical scholar—included Judaism and Christianity. *** What we are looking for here I suspect is a physical Tree of Life that triggers immortality and perhaps triggers the capacity to express higher wisdom Allegro wrote (p.105): The whole Eden story is mushroom-based mythology, not least in the identity of the "tree" as the sacred fungus... *** This is recorded in traditions as the bread of life and the water of life and both seem connected to alchemy Allegro devoted a section to it as the bread of life (pp.192/5) and he made much of the mushroom 'sweating' a milky juice, which he equated with God's semen, of which initiates were to partake (e.g., p.87). Albeit, Allegro, did not discuss alchemy, as such. However, those alchemists for whom the science is not purely allegorical would find much to contemplate in his book. *** One perhaps needs to note that, after the publication of this book, Allegro's highly respected academic reputation crashed.
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Post by maat on Mar 15, 2007 4:04:19 GMT
Now strictly speaking this should be in the Resources section - HOWEVER - there it will be lost. Here it will be available to those who wish to know more about the science that Russell sometimes alludes to. And it really is about "the Secret" that others will try to sell to you. So why not see FOR FREE if some of the so called hidden secrets really work? A great experiment. "Long before Anthony Robbins, there was Charles F Haanel... The Master Key System is simply one of the finest studies in personal power, metaphysics, and prosperity consciousness ever written. Covering everything from how to create abundance and wealth to how to get healthy, Charles F Haanel leaves no stone unturned. With precision, he elucidates on each topic with logic and rigor that not only leaves you feeling good, but also thinking good. The book was banned by the Church in 1933 and has been hidden away for decades." Maat
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Post by wayseer on Mar 15, 2007 4:39:42 GMT
Interesting - from the little I have read the 'system' it is a Westernised revamp of the teachings of the Buddha some 2500 years ago.
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