An interesting quotation that stimulates the mind.
>If all our common-sense notions about the universe were correct, then science would have solved the secrets of the universe thousands of years ago.
I wonder if the distribution of commonsense coincides with the population of scientists.
I recall an account of an eminent scientist in the 18th century who explained that life was not possible at 60 miles per hour.
And I also seem to recall in the 1890s the head of the US Patents Office explained that there was nothing more to invent.
>The purpose of science is to peel back the layer of the appearance of the objects to reveal their underlying nature
I would have thought that the earliest human use of science (knowingness) was in learning how to build and when to plant crops. Perhaps at some time an authority determined the purpose of science but I hesitate to suggest who or what that authority might be.
Perhaps the revelation of underlying nature might be considered metaphysics
>if appearance and essence were the same thing, there would be no need for science.
That is an interesting proposition. I wonder how it would impact the building of bridges.
Science has left the scientific method behind. These modern scientists no longer hypothesize; test; and theorize any more. They just open a big book and tell you that if its not in there its not science.
In my book, such people are technicians, not scientists.
S & F, Philip Carter / The Quarry / If there is anything in the universe that can't stand discussion, let it crack (Wendell Phillips)
As a Technician myself (Avionics) I can say that we are needed to make practical and to service that which the Scientists theorise upon. Engineers and Technicians realise the dreams of the Scientists.
Scientists, technicians and engineers are all valued. Sometimes one person is all three, but usually not at the same time. My point was that much criticism of scientific dogmatism does not apply to the work of scientists as such, while a technician can not be fairly criticised for simply going with whatever works best.
The problem with some of the Scientific Community is that they have become too detached from the realities and practicalities of Life and have become as fiercely dogmatic in the protection of their Theories, e.g. "Global Warming", "Einstein's Physics", "Darwinian Evolution", the safety or otherwise of "MRI Inoculations", as the Roman Catholic Church was in the days of the Inquisition against the Scientists of that era such as Bruno and Galileo. They don't torture or burn at the stake but do heap opprobrium on any who dare to question them and in some cases research grants etc have been blocked to those who don't toe the party line.
Last Edit: Feb 16, 2008 10:39:37 GMT by lauderdale
If all our common-sense notions about the universe were correct, then science would have solved the secrets of the universe thousands of years ago. The purpose of science is to peel back the layer of the appearance of the objects to reveal their underlying nature. In fact, if appearance and essence were the same thing, there would be no need for science.
Michio Kaku, in Hyperspace
However, with "science," there is the good, the bad and the ugly.
Not only is the universe stranger than you imagine, It's stranger than you can imagine.
Arthur C. Clarke
What scientific knowledge is, in fact, is the best available approximation of truth in the judgement of the majority of scientists who work in the particular speciality involved. Truth is not something that we possess; it is a goal towards which we, hopefully, strive.
M.Scott Peck, 1988, People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil, Rider, London, p. 257
Nothing exists, but atoms and empty space. All else is conjecture.
Democritus (born circa 460 BCE)
And even if by chance he were to utter The final truth, he would himself not know it; For all is but a woven web of guesses.
Xenophanes (b. circa 430 BCE), quoted, K.R. Popper, 1972, Conjectures and Refutations, Routledge & Kegan Paul, London, p. 26
Science has served as our paradigm of knowledge, so that we have fastened upon any general account of science as an epistemology, an account of how knowledge as a whole should be acquired and evaluated.
Barry Barnes, "Models & Revolutions", in P. Temple (Editor), March 1985, Australian Society, Vol.4, No.3, Australian Society Publishing Company, Fitzroy, p.16
Emma Darwin to her husband Charles:
May not the habit in scientific pursuits of believing nothing till it is proved, influence your mind too much in other things which cannot be proved in the same way, and which if true, are likely to be above our comprehension?
Christopher Ralling (Editor), 1982, The Voyage of Charles Darwin: His Autobiographical Writings, Ariel Books, London, p.14
Professor John Passmore has pointed out that, "the fact we have to live with is that if most British philosophers are convinced that Continental metaphysics is arbitrary, pretentious and mind destroying, Continental philosophers are no less confident that British empiricism is philistine, pedestrian and soul destroying!"
Malcolm Long, 1973, "Marx - The Man and his Work" in Marx & Beyond: A Series of Six Lectures, by leading Australian Scholars, Examining Marxist Theory and Practice, Broadcast on ABC Radio, Australian Broadcasting Commission, Sydney, p. 48
On the empirical method among psychologists:
Many behaviourists in psychology have, in practice, seemed to make philosophical claims about what exists, rather than merely to impose methodological restrictions on what they will allow themselves to count as evidence.
Anthony Quinton, "Behaviourism" in Alan Bullock & Oliver Stallybrass (Editors), 1977, The Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thought, Fontana (Collins), London, p. 57
....`psyche' and `matter' are actually the same phenomenon, one observed from `within' and the other from `without'.
M. Von Franz, in C.G. Jung, 1978, Man & His Symbols, Picador, London, p.226
I saw mathematics simply as a tool, a language, but one of various methods for obtaining a description of reality in order to better understand it. Reality was there, somewhere, in the form of an intricate landscape to be explored and understood. But I came across those who thought the exactness of the mathematical approach was actually embedded in nature. They believed that only by reducing nature to its bare elements and uncovering the inherent mathematics could one gain true insight into the territory they chose to explore. These were brilliant scholars, but we stood at opposite intellectual poles.
Edgar Mitchell & Dwight Williams, 1996, The Way of the Explorer: An Apollo Astronaut's Journey Through the Material and Mystical Worlds, G.P.Putnam's Sons, New York, p. 19
Thus if one were asked to define the Temple in the Heavens one would need to decide what more primitive and undefined concepts could be used to define it.
Or one might simply state what one means, as when:
In case any brethren (within or without Masonry) have an interest, the hypothesis is that the stars on the top right hand side of the EA tracing board are the Pleiades containing Alcyone, the Queen who destroys evil (represented in the lodge by the beehive), which is the central sun for our solar system so that a line from Alcyone to the Grand Lodge Eternal in the solar system is a plumbline by construction
And on the top center of the tracing board we have the Blazing Star representing the brightest star in the sky, Sirius, which is one of the 7 solar systems rotating around Alcyone and one of the elder brothers of our solar system - hence associated with the five points of fellowship - and ascended to by Jacob's Ladder - if a brother is willing and able
So how would we devise an experiment to test this - other than providing a copy to each lodge and seeing who penetrates the veiling?
I have said as much about this as I wish in public
Thus much to which Bro. Russell has been opaquely alluding for some time becomes somewhat transparent. For those who wish further clarity, so as to judge for themselves the sense or nonsense of this "hypothesis" (unsupported by astronomy), I provide a link expounding on so-called Esoteric Astrology.
Elsewhere on the forum, we find:
The Pleiades are said to contain the central sun around which our solar system and 6 other rotate.
If you imagine that the solar system is on the rim of a wheel and the Pleiades at the center then the central sun is always at the meridian for the temple in the heavens (solar system).
And of course a line from the central sun into the temple in the heavens is always a plumbline.
The trouble is, despite advances in astronomy being so profound that we can virtually look back in time almost to the moment of the Big Bang, there is no objective evidence for the notion of ours being one of seven solar systems orbiting a central sun. Hardly a "scientific" basis from which to proceed.
It is hardly my temple and I am hardly the first to refer to it
Here is a comment by Dion Fortune:
"The eternal temple in the heavens, however, is another matter and innumerable witnesses, of every age and faith, have borne witness to its existence; but they all declare that it is reached in vision"
And here is Leadbeater:
"So when at the opening of the Lodge the W.J.W. lays down his pillar and the W.S.W. raises his, it symbolizes the fact that now we are interested in life, we are working upon man, upon consciousness, not upon material objects, as would be the case if we were building a material structure, and not the temple of man, his inner character, his immortal soul. The Great Architect is now building “a temple in the heavens, not made with hands”.
And here is Wilmhurst
"each Mason's soul that is wrought into a true die or square by his work upon himself here, becomes one more new stone of the restored temple in the heavens."
And here is Ginzberg's legends of the Jews
""Tell Israel that I order them to build Me a tabernacle not because I lack a dwelling, for, even before the world had been created, I had erected My temple in the heavens;"
And here is a more obscure author Gilchrist
"Yet every man is our brother and the Great Architect of the Universe our Father; and we like the rest of humanity are His workmen, and His craftsmen; our task being not only to build the temple of our own soul, but to help forward the evolution of all men to assist in the construction of that mighty, grand Temple in the Heavens."
The question I suggest is whether Masonry still provides the means to access the Temple in the Heavens whilst still in a human body.
But describing the reality behind allegorical Temple in the Heavens is surely secondary in importance to the experience.of entry.
"Science has at last discovered that the sun is not a dead centre, with planets and comets wheeling about it but itself stationary. It is now ascertained that the sun also is in motion, carrying with it its splendid retinue of comets, planets, its satellites and theirs, around some other and vastly mightier centre. Astronomers are not yet fully agreed as to what or where that centre is. Some, however, believe that they have found the direction of it to be the Pleiades, and particularly Alcyone, the central one of the renowned Pleiadic stars. To the distinguished German astronomer, Prof. J. H. Maedler, belongs the honor of having made this discovery. Alcyone, then, as far as science has been able to perceive, would seem to be "the midnight throne" in which the whole system of gravitation has its central seat, and from which the Almighty governs His universe. And here is the wonderful corresponding fact, that at the date of the Great Pyramid's completion, at midnight of the autumnal equinox, and hence the true beginning of the year as still preserved in the traditions of many nations, the Pleiades were distributed over the meridian of this pyramid, with Alcyone (ç Tauri) precisely on the line.
Here, then, is a pointing of the highest and sublimest character that mere human science has ever been able so much as to hint, and which would seem to breathe an unsuspected and mighty meaning into that speech of God to Job when He demanded, "Cant thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?"
You were looking at the bars instead of the stars Tamrin.
Lot of masonic references in there. Could masonry, with its roots in Egypt, as per the First Degree Charge, be a bit suss?
What do you think God meant when He supposedly spoke to Job and demanded, "Can't thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?" It is an unusual question.
.. my gut feeling is that in some mysterious manner, their Energies are connected to 'the Sevens' - ie chakras, officers of the lodge. Thought is the Builder (Cayce) ... God, whose mighty thought, the Universe created ... what we are mindful off we can create in our own way in ourselves. See www.unitedearth.com.au/watercrystals.html for what thought can do.
The Sun and the Moon on the tracing board are, for me, representations of the Life Energy and Consciousness. Intuitively I connect the Plaeides, the seven stars, with the seven points on the Soul Star at the top of the ladder. Fragmentation/Integration sort of thing. Can't explain it any better than that.
Do not be too quick in making assumptions: I too hold the Pleiades to be significant (see Star Lore, other forum). I am, however, cautious about carelessly jumping to conclusions. For instance, where a phenomenon might as credibly be explained by invoking the Flying Spaghetti Monster, as opposed to a garbled theory, I'll go with our noodly master.
I repeat my opinion that Freemasonry is a rational science, which was at the forefront of the Age of Enlightenment. Any R.A. Mason will recognise John Locke's metaphor, where he said that the philosopher ought to serve as an "underlabourer in clearing the ground a little and removing some of the rubbish that lies in the way of scientific knowledge" (Locke is also closely associated with the Craft's controversial Leland-Locke Manuscript). In my opinion, there is an esotericism which is appropriate in a Masonic context, but it is not one of giants, UFOs and unicorns, (which I regard as being among the rubbish to be removed), but rather one of spiritual development (indeed, in my Masonic career, I was charged to oppose superstition).
Despite huge advances in astronomy there is nothing to suggest ours is one of seven solar systems orbiting the Pleiades. I certainly do not expect this to be the basis of a Temple in the Heavens from which, if we perform the right rituals, visitors may appear. Indeed, the utterance of such nonsense verges on glossolalia.
The Spaghetti Nebula
Water crystal work and criticism
BTW, readers should bear-in-mind with Bro. Ma'at's link to Masaru Emoto's site that, despite urgings to do so, Emoto has not given prior notice to the scientific community of any experiments using Double-blind controls. Thus, we read:
Emoto's water crystal experiments consist of exposing water in glasses to different words, pictures, or music, and then freezing and examining the aesthetics of the resulting crystals with microscopic photography.
Emoto's work does not adhere to the long established practices and procedures of the Scientific Method, such as Double blind controls, which have been developed to reduce the effect of statistical anomalies and experimenter bias. As a result, critics of Emoto point out that his experiments are highly susceptible to selection bias and confirmation bias, with the photographers having full knowledge of both the hypothesis and expected result. For example, the person taking the photographs or the person judging the beauty of the photographs knows which water samples have been sent which messages. The photographer or judge’s attitudes towards Emoto’s claims - either sympathetic or skeptical - could distort their choice and ranking of photos, causing them to (knowingly or not) hunt through the diversity of crystals in each sample to look for those that match their expectations.
Even sympathetic commentators have criticized Emoto for insufficient experimental controls, and for not sharing enough details of his approach with the scientific community. In addition, Emoto has been criticized for designing his experiments in ways that leave them open to human error influencing his findings.
In the day-to-day work of his group, the creativity of the photographers rather than the rigor of the experiment is an explicit policy of Emoto. Emoto freely acknowledges that he is not a scientist, and that photographers are instructed to select the most pleasing photographs.
In 2006 Emoto pubished a paper together with Dean Radin in the peer-reviewed Journal of Science and Healing in which they claim to have proven in a double blind test during which 2000 people who prayed in Tokyo that those people could increase the aesthetic appeal of water stored in a room in California compared to water in another room.
James Randi, founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation, has publicly offered Emoto one million dollars if his results can be reproduced in a double-blind study. Randi has also stated that he does not expect to ever have to pay the million dollars.
offramp: The horse racing tipster of the newspaper I buy on Saturday won Tipster of the Year, so I decided to follow him and I put on two bets, one for Sat, one for Sun. These are my first horse bets in about 30 months. I placed 2 x £2:50 wins. Larry won at 7-1...
Apr 29, 2019 7:47:50 GMT
offramp: but The Nightwatch came 2nd by 2 lengths. So I am up on the deal but I haven't collected yet.
Apr 29, 2019 7:49:21 GMT
offramp: Cramming for the meeting June 4. I have 3° Prayer to learn. (Darkness.) I hope it won’t be too hard, but I have my son’s 18th birthday in the meantime.
Apr 30, 2019 19:00:13 GMT
offramp: I have memorized the 3° Prayer now. It wasn't too hard.
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offramp: I'd love to make tournedos Rossini.
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offramp: Espace Etienne Dolet, 153 rue des Moulins, 45750 St-Pryvé-St-Mesmin
May 6, 2019 15:48:37 GMT
sbs59: Can someone help me with this question. I was a Master Mason for 4 years until last year. My father died and i left the Masons as i was depressed about his death. Can i now re join a lodge?
May 21, 2019 10:07:41 GMT
The Ancient: sbs59: Were you suspended for non payment of dues? if so, square up and petition the lodge for a restatement vote. If your dues are current, your still a member. In this case, it is all about the Benjamins.
May 27, 2019 0:49:07 GMT