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Post by leonardo on Apr 26, 2008 9:53:30 GMT
While doing some research on Bro. Elizabeth St. Ledger I came across the following which seems to have some additional info on the story. I share it here for those who may not have had a chance to read the 1930s article. It discusses also other early women Masons. Unfortunately the "unknown" writer has very old fashioned views on women in the Craft. Nonetheless, interesting reading. WOMEN FREEMASONS
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Post by lauderdale on Apr 26, 2008 11:02:09 GMT
I read the first paragraph, Bro Leo, and the words "senile old ****" went through my mind, especially his offensive description of Co-Masonry at the end of his article, to which he had not the guts to put his name. If he wasn't rotted bones in the ground or ashes in an urn somewhere given that this was written in 1933, I wonder exactly what he would have thought if he had been presented with Bro Cora, not to mention some of the redoubtable Ladies in your Mother Lodge!
Hopefully such opinions as in the article will one day be as outré as racist attitudes are considered nowadays, where they were a commonplace when I was born and in my childhood and early teens.
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Post by leonardo on Apr 26, 2008 11:40:21 GMT
Yes, absolutely, but it does demonstrate how far we have come since the closed minds of yesteryear. Such views are still expressed today by less enlightened Brn, but fortunately they are becoming fewer and fewer as more and more are waking up to the reality that women have every right to practice and be accepted as fellow Masons.
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Post by lauderdale on Apr 26, 2008 11:41:47 GMT
Now I have often wondered if the aversion to the very idea of Women being Freemasons even to the extent of the total denial as typified by the article in question, takes its rise from this folk legend www.answers.com/vagina%20dentata
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 26, 2008 18:29:57 GMT
Bro. Elizabeth Aldworth (nee St Ledger) 1693-1775: Initiated c.1710 at Cork, Ireland See Edward Conder’s, "The Hon. Miss St. Leger and Freemasonry" (AQC v.viii, 1895, pp.16-23)
In Bro. Aldworth we find the woman most famous for being a Freemason. Reams of papers have been written concerning her admission and I will not dilate upon these here, except to emphasise on the one hand that, while some Brethren have fulminated against her eaves-dropping, she was at the time under no Masonic obligation not to do so and that, from her profane perspective, her conduct only infringed the conventions of good manners. On the other hand, Bro. Aldworth later proved to be particularly worthy of the honour bestowed upon her and her membership became a matter of great pride among the Freemasons of Ireland. She is said to have become Master of her lodge (Wright, p.79); to have led public processions in Masonic regalia; and her portrait graced almost every lodge room in Ireland (Martin, v.17, p.128). She received a Masonic funeral (Wright, p.80) and afterwards "...the memory of ‘our Sister Aldworth’ was toasted by the Freemasons of Ireland” (Pick & Knight, p.237).
References: Martin, G.M., n.d., British Masonic Miscellany, David Winter & Son, Dendee Pick, F.L. & Knight, G.N., 1965, The Freemason’s Pocket Reference Book, F. Muller Ltd., London Wright, D., 1922, Woman and Freemasonry, William Rider & Son Ltd., London
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Apr 27, 2008 21:45:23 GMT
The author is not "unknown". The author is Bro. Carl Claudy and it's a chapter from his "Masonic Harvest".
I've emailed MasonicWorld.com a number of times to let them know. I've never received a reply and they've never corrected this.
Bro. Claudy follows a familiar pattern among Malecraft historians. To go to great lengths to say women can't be Freemasons (they just can't). And then spend the rest of the writing explaining those situations in which women have been Freemasons. These tellings are, themselves, often peppered with disclaimers but . . .
I continue to view it much as journalism was practiced in the old Soviet Union. The only way to publish the truth is to deny it. So, at least, the truth was published at all.
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Post by lauderdale on Apr 27, 2008 21:51:40 GMT
"The author is Bro. Carl Claudy"
Died 1957. Let's hope opinions are a bit better 51 years later. We have had Women Presidents. Prime Ministers, Women Priests are now accepted in many religions, even women bishops in some.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Apr 27, 2008 21:54:21 GMT
My copy is from 1948 Not at all obsolete. He brings up some good points. And at least he wrote about these women at all. He didn't have to, y'know. In doing so - intentional or not - he left behind, for scholars such as myself, some record and direction in which to go. I'm rather grateful to him. And I will diss him not at all.
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ricardo
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Post by ricardo on Apr 28, 2008 14:59:44 GMT
Click on the following link for a short version of the story about the Lady Freemason and several interesting illustrations from the Provincial Grand Lodge of Munster in Ireland. S&F
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 2, 2008 22:42:09 GMT
Oooooh, best photo I've seen so far of her portrait. Thank you! ;D
And Bro. Leo, look, she was buried in the Davies Vault in 1775 at St Fin Barre’s Cathedral. So next time you're there . . . ;D
Two things about this portrait strike me:
1) What is that think around her neck?
2) The position of her right arm is something I've seen before. I once saw a photo (it was on EBay and I really, really wish I'd bid on it now) of a dude in his casket from the late 19th Century. He had all sorts of Masonic symbols around him and who ever lay him out position his right arm so that his right hand extended to his left arm. Much as Bro. Elizabeth is doing in her portrait. What's up with this?
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 2, 2008 22:56:05 GMT
Hmmmmm, wait. This may not be *the* portrait but a copy. The image in John Day's original book (published in 1941 and a close up of which is maintained online here) clearly shows pearls. This one does not have the pearls. Y'know, I've had several Male-only Masons tell me, in person and with a straight face, that there's no evidence she ever existed. K
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on May 2, 2008 23:03:29 GMT
2) The position of her right arm is something I've seen before. I once saw a photo (it was on EBay and I really, really wish I'd bid on it now) of a dude in his casket from the late 19th Century. He had all sorts of Masonic symbols around him and who ever lay him out position his right arm so that his right hand extended to his left arm. Much as Bro. Elizabeth is doing in her portrait. What's up with this? The S. of Reverence, as distinct from the first part of the F.C. S. (that of F.). Note the position of the T., as distinct from that in the S. of F. When finished, the arm is simply dropped to the side, as distinct from the method of completing the S. of F. For many it is the position we ought adopt in prayer, etc., instead of that associated with the 2° A.P.
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Post by leonardo on May 3, 2008 7:29:34 GMT
Hmmmmm, wait. This may not be *the* portrait but a copy. The image in John Day's original book (published in 1941 and a close up of which is maintained online here) clearly shows pearls. This one does not have the pearls. Cool observation, Detective Bro:. Karen ;D
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Post by leonardo on May 3, 2008 7:37:32 GMT
Oooooh, best photo I've seen so far of her portrait. Thank you! ;D And Bro. Leo, look, she was buried in the Davies Vault in 1775 at St Fin Barre’s Cathedral. So next time you're there . . . ;D Here's a link to their website: cathedral.cork.anglican.org/Thing is the site says: Designed by William Burges and consecrated in 1870, the Cathedral lies on a site where Christian worship has been offered since the seventh century.But I suppose as the place has been in use since the 7th century those vaults could have been there 1775.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 10, 2008 7:10:36 GMT
Oh my, that is puzzling
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Post by leonardo on May 10, 2008 7:19:39 GMT
Oh my, that is puzzling It is, isn't it. But I suppose there's no harm in contacting the place and asking for some clarification.
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ricardo
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Post by ricardo on May 10, 2008 7:48:05 GMT
2) The position of her right arm is something I've seen before. I once saw a photo (it was on EBay and I really, really wish I'd bid on it now) of a dude in his casket from the late 19th Century. He had all sorts of Masonic symbols around him and who ever lay him out position his right arm so that his right hand extended to his left arm. Much as Bro. Elizabeth is doing in her portrait. What's up with this? The S. of Reverence, as distinct from the first part of the F.C. S. (that of F.). Note the position of the T., as distinct from that in the S. of F. When finished, the arm is simply dropped to the side, as distinct from the method of completing the S. of F. For many it is the position we ought adopt in prayer, etc., instead of that associated with the 2° A.P. To my knowledge the "sign" or "attitude", with the thumb horizontally aligned with the fingers and placed on the left breast, is unknown to present day Irish Fmry.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 10, 2008 16:03:57 GMT
The photo I saw was of an American Freemason, so I don't think the sign would be unique to Irish working. Assuming it means anything at all. I mean, what does Napoleon's hand in his shirt "mean"?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on May 10, 2008 20:22:02 GMT
I mean, what does Napoleon's hand in his shirt "mean"?
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