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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Jun 29, 2008 13:21:15 GMT
The official Patent from the Grand Orient of France giving the Grand Orient of the United States of America Masonic authority over North America was signed in Paris on Friday, the 27th of June, 2008 at 9:15 AM EST. A Treaty of Amity was also signed between the two sovereign Masonic powers. More news and photos to follow over the next few days.
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Post by penfold on Jun 29, 2008 15:19:05 GMT
Can we have a source for this please?
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 29, 2008 16:05:00 GMT
The Grand Orient of the United States of America (GOUSA) is a continuation of the Masonic traditions begun by brothers such as Benjamin Franklin and the Marquis De Lafayette. Our lineage can be traced back through the Grand Orient of France to the original speculative Grand Lodge of London that was established in 1717. www.grandorientusa.org/default.aspThrough seafarers and traders, Freemasonry which quickly established itself in England spread to the continent and the first Masonic Lodges were set up in France between 1726 and 1730, particularly in ports such as Bordeaux and Dunkerque. The Grand Orient de France which was set up in 1733 and was, until the end of the 19th century, the only Masonic Order in France www.godf.org/foreign/uk/histoire_uk.htmlThe History of Freemasonry by Albert Gallatin Mackey Chapter 45 - Origin of the Grand Orient of France www.masonicsecrets.org/history-of-freemasonry/part2/origin-of-grand-orient-of-france.htmlwill give a good account of the beginnings of the Grand Orient of France
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Post by negredo on Jun 29, 2008 21:07:07 GMT
Brother Bill, that source tells us nothing but what is claimed. That was written far before they ever met with GOdF.
I have seen this announcement before. My question is, shouldn't the Grand Master or Grand Secretary be making these official announcements and not from others on the internet? I would think so.
Until then we can only speculate on just what is the truth. If it it is true, then you have a lot of work to do--offline.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 29, 2008 21:34:28 GMT
I just supply the facts.
The nature of the internet means things sometimes travel faster than people would wish. I was unable to find any confirmation from GOdF.
So I placed what I could find. It was relevant to the origins of GOdF and thereby the relationship with the GOUSA.
Sorry, I am not sure what is meant by this ?
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Post by brandt on Jun 29, 2008 22:33:24 GMT
Perhaps I can clarify the statements. The initial post in this thread is true. The Grand Orient of the United States has received a patent from the Grand Orient of France. In addition the two sovereign powers have entered into a treaty of amity.
Brandt Smith Grand Secretary Grand Orient of the United States
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imakegarb
Member
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Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 29, 2008 23:08:33 GMT
I appreciate your attempt to clarify this, Bro. Brandt.
However, Negredo has a point. It was inappropriate for this to be announced as it has been. It should have been announced, jointly, by the two bodies involved. To do otherwise is just bad manners.
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Post by parisfred on Jun 30, 2008 8:20:09 GMT
I don’t understand why it’s a bad manner, Brother Brandt is the Grand Secretary of The GO USA, he announced that the treaty was signed by his obedience; I believe he has done his job doing it this way.
He is the grand secretary, a member of the GO USA and a brother – that most of us on this forum know him for years – I am surprised that we don’t trust his words.
I don’t want to go on an argument on this subject, and I wish all the best to our American brethren I am sure that this is just the beginning of a new era of fraternity between free-masons all over the world. A fraternity that we already know on a forum like this one. As a place where we can all speak and exchange, understanding and enjoying our differences.
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Post by lauderdale on Jun 30, 2008 10:02:56 GMT
It would be helpful if GOdF were to make a Statement on this matter, available for posting to Masonic Fora such as this etc, which clearly set out the situation with respect to GOUSA.
I wish GOUSA every success but would be grateful if any remaining doubts about their situation could be resolved.
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Post by parisfred on Jun 30, 2008 10:20:31 GMT
Bro Lauderdale can you explain me what are the" remaining doubts " ?
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 30, 2008 10:21:56 GMT
My only comment is , I don't think anyone at UGLE knows who John Silko is, certainly none of the Grand Officers I have spoken with know him, but then there are a great many things they do not know. I had never heard of John until last month, but then I am a nothing, so that proves very little.
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Post by brandt on Jun 30, 2008 10:41:52 GMT
Bro.·. Karen, Just trying to clarify the situation a bit. There is a post in this thread that said that the Grand Master or Grand Secretary should say something, so I did. I promise that I had no nefarious purpose to it.
Brandt
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Post by lauderdale on Jun 30, 2008 10:43:08 GMT
Personally, and as an Individual who is a Freemason, I am happy to accept that GOUSA is a bona-fide Masonic Body and I wish them well. It is however NOT for me to accord them "Recognition", that being the preserve of Grand Lodges, Grand Orients, Supreme Councils etc.
Now from reading postings on the various Masonic Fora there appears to be some doubt in the minds of certain posters regarding the matter of the Patent and Treaty of Amity between GOdF and GOUSA.
To dispel all such doubts and to "Lighten our Darkness" it would be beneficial were such as Statement to be issued by GOdF.
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Post by parisfred on Jun 30, 2008 10:53:48 GMT
well brother , I cannot help you at the moment , I saw nothing in french about it Knowing that the GM and the GS of the GO USA told you it was signed I really don't understand : 1/ why one cannot accept that they sign it ? 2/ that they can lie about it ? I have no doubt that we can trust Brandt about it.
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Post by lauderdale on Jun 30, 2008 10:57:03 GMT
As I said, I am personally happy to accept a Brother Mason's word as his bond but alas some others still harbour doubts.
To settle this matter once and for all and to assuage their doubts I feel that a published statement from GOdF would settle matters once and for all.
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Post by brandt on Jun 30, 2008 11:00:58 GMT
Are there any specific doubts that I can address? I understand there was a question about the patent and treaty. I have done what I can to answer that. I don't speak for the Grand Orient of France. The documents are from the Grand Orient of France.
I am running around busy at the moment and will be for the next week or so. I just returned from Jamaica and walked right in to a lot of work that was put off while I was gone.
Brandt
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Post by lauderdale on Jun 30, 2008 11:22:55 GMT
Bro Brandt. I have no problems myself about this but as some others would appear to have reservations their doubts may be satisfied were some evidence from GOdF be produced, be that a Statement from a suitable official thereof or even (if such be allowable) a scan of such Patent be published on a Forum such as this.
That way any doubts or scruples should be satisfied, albeit that any subsequent questions regarding "Recognition" and "Visitation" etc would still be the reserve of Grand Lodges/ Supreme Councils etc.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Jun 30, 2008 12:21:05 GMT
Time Patience and Perseverance will shed the needed Light for all. Fact: Brothers from the US were in France all last week. Fact: Those brothers have now returned. Fact: GOdF had photographers there taking pictures, so they will come to Light soon too. Fact: All documents will be scanned and made available for ALL to see. Fact: The GOdF does not answer to anyone, so they do not have to appease any body accept the ones they are amity with. They will move at their own pace. IMHO.( I do not speak for France)
But if all this was factually incorrect, I am sure the GOdF would act quickly to deny the Americans claims of being in France at a documented communication held on 6/27/08 in France.
I agree, it is pretty incredulous, but fortunately it is true and now in the History books.... Patience.... Bro Brandt, I hope I am not out of line with these posts, I am not speaking for anyone accept myself and what I do know. I personally associate with the Brothers who made the journey, and are now back in the states. Pictures will come soon.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 30, 2008 12:37:26 GMT
If I find out Jeff Peace has been to France and did not call in to see me there is going to be trouble. 20 minutes out of his way. He don't phone , he don't write, no dates.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 30, 2008 12:45:18 GMT
It is not about 'specific doubts', it is the job of the moderators to try and make sure that which is published here is accurate and true.
for example if I said 'lauderdale is grumpy'. That is just my opinion, but if I wish to make it a statement of fact then I should produce evidence that this is true.
As I am not able to do that then I can not expect others [for that is the purpose of publishing statements] to take it as a fact.
In other words if you wish to be a reporter you should back up your reports with source material. Which is exactly what was asked.
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