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Post by penfold on Jun 30, 2008 14:37:39 GMT
I appreciate Bro Brandt stopping by to offer his clarification, however, this announcement is not verifiable unofficial until there is a confirmatory statement from the GOdF, which will no doubt be along in due time.
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Post by negredo on Jun 30, 2008 14:46:17 GMT
I don’t understand why it’s a bad manner, Brother Brandt is the Grand Secretary of The GO USA, he announced that the treaty was signed by his obedience; I believe he has done his job doing it this way. He is the grand secretary, a member of the GO USA and a brother – that most of us on this forum know him for years – I am surprised that we don’t trust his words. But it was not first his words, but everybody else on the subject--those who have made claims in the past with no official authority. Thank you Bro. Brandt for the information. For clarification, is it both a patent and a treaty that the GOUSA has, or one of the other? Will we enjoy official statements from both jurisdictions soon or shall we read it all on the internet from others? I apologise for my cynicism--we've seen situations like this before. Announcements are made by those who, when questioned on their sources, get violent and just call names or shout polemics. They are usually in the position of no official involvement. Thank you Brandt. I look forward to reading more. This was made to say that those that have been being very loud in their beliefs in the GOUSA should now begin their work and ignore those dragons they dream about. How convenient--now you answer for them to us. Regarding this statement on who they listen or answer to, now you too can understand why your enemy the Mainstream do not have to listen to your past demands and claims. The first step is to let your grand officers do their job, or is that going to be a future problem if they do not let you do that for them or if they do not agree with you and do things a different way?
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Post by maat on Jun 30, 2008 22:56:01 GMT
Why don't the disbelievers just contact the GOdF directly?
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Post by brandt on Jul 1, 2008 10:05:08 GMT
I don't mind cynicism. I am often quite cynical. Negredo, it is a patent and a treaty - you are correct.
Brandt
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 1, 2008 11:08:21 GMT
Bro Brandt, on a purely personal basis and as one Freemason to another, I wish you and GOUSA well and look forward to seeing details of the Patent etc in due course either on Fora such as this or on GOdF's website.
Best Wishes!
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Post by brandt on Jul 1, 2008 14:08:34 GMT
My dear Brother, I am sure that you will see the news on both.
Brandt
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Post by corab on Jul 2, 2008 11:30:52 GMT
Why don't the disbelievers just contact the GOdF directly? Because the burden of proof lies not on the disbeliever, but on those making claims. Having followed this development with a keen eye, I have checked GOdF's website -- particularly its announcements sections -- on a regular basis, and have found no word of any of this. Call me a "disbeliever" if you like, but I find that peculiar. Normally amity arrangements are announced jointly by the respective GMs, and the disparate and thus far unilateral announcements about this arrangement can only give rise to questions such as "Why haven't we heard anything from GOdF yet?"In a joint venture like this, both parties should jointly announce their endeavour. Until that is done, there can be no certainty as to the actual situation. I trust, therefore, that Bro:. Brandt will forgive me for withholding my fraternal congratulations until such time as the agreement has been jointly announced by suitably senior officials within both organisations. S&F, Cora
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 2, 2008 15:55:15 GMT
Because the burden of proof lies not on the disbeliever, but on those making claims. Can we please, please chisel this truth in stone, embellish the letters with gold and make it our motto.
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Post by brandt on Jul 2, 2008 16:14:20 GMT
There is nothing to forgive Cora, nothing at all. I realize that many would like to see the proofs. I have a copy of said proofs but they will be properly announced very soon. I would like to add that there is a large difference between seeking proof (which I whole heartedly support) and responses that hover around accusations.
Brandt
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Post by penfold on Jul 2, 2008 16:30:55 GMT
Bro Brandt - had this unofficial pronouncement reached our ears from a more reliable and less inflamatory source then the cynicism would likely to be less I would stongly add that there hasn't really been on this forum thread anything that could be considered a 'response that hovers around accusations' - if you have experienced this elsewhere then please direct your crticisms to that place.
As brother Cora has intimated, it is usual practice for such pronouncements to be made in tandem, not unilaterally - and even less so from an unauthorised source.
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Post by corab on Jul 2, 2008 21:43:45 GMT
There is nothing to forgive Cora, nothing at all. Right glad am I to hear it, my Bro:. There is indeed -- I suspect you have felt no small amount of frustration on the uncontrolled and unauthorised announcements that have been leaked prior to the signing of the treaty. Are you able to clarify the nature of the treaty at all? Is it an amity treaty, a dual membership treaty, something else ..? S&F, Cora
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Post by brandt on Jul 3, 2008 11:55:33 GMT
The treaty is a treaty of amity which clearly spells out the manner in which the Grand Orient of France and the Grand Orient of the United States work together, share information, respect each's sovereignty in their own affairs, and establishes in a formal manner the fraternal bonds that have already been developed and will continue to develop. Dual membership is of course allowed but is ultimately up to the hypothetical lodges in question.
Regarding frustrations, well that is just life. I am used to being frustrated from time to time. In my profession I herd cats which is not as easy or fun as it sounds.
Brandt
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Post by leonardo on Jul 3, 2008 12:45:20 GMT
The treaty is a treaty of amity which clearly spells out the manner in which the Grand Orient of France and the Grand Orient of the United States work together, share information, respect each's sovereignty in their own affairs, and establishes in a formal manner the fraternal bonds that have already been developed and will continue to develop. Dual membership is of course allowed but is ultimately up to the hypothetical lodges in question. Regarding frustrations, well that is just life. I am used to being frustrated from time to time. In my profession I herd cats which is not as easy or fun as it sounds. Brandt As someone fairly new to Freemasonry, especially the aspect of which you are referring, it's nice to have this deeper understanding. So, thank you for taking the time to clarify things, Bro. I look forward to hear more in due course. Regarding the cat's, I'm sure Bro. Steve could give you a hand there
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Post by brandt on Jul 3, 2008 14:10:37 GMT
Brother Leo, I will keep all of you informed at the proper time as these matters develop. I would like to mention that more formal announcements will be found at www.grandorientusa.org very soon. Herding cats is just one of those things that people must resign themselves to deal with. Brandt
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 3, 2008 15:38:24 GMT
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Post by brandt on Jul 3, 2008 17:12:34 GMT
...and nothing else.
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Post by leonardo on Jul 3, 2008 17:24:23 GMT
Brother Leo, I will keep all of you informed at the proper time as these matters develop. I would like to mention that more formal announcements will be found at www.grandorientusa.org very soon. Brandt Thank you. I will keep checking. Bro. Karen would look good in a cat suit
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Post by brandt on Jul 3, 2008 17:34:25 GMT
no that is an interesting thought
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 3, 2008 19:21:25 GMT
Bro Leo, tell me about it! Indeed as DC of a Lodge I know what it is like "Herding Cats" !
Just loved the movie, then again I love cats anyway, my favourite creatures but being a Leo I suppose that figures.
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Post by corab on Jul 3, 2008 20:25:25 GMT
The treaty is a treaty of amity which clearly spells out the manner in which the Grand Orient of France and the Grand Orient of the United States work together, share information, respect each's sovereignty in their own affairs, and establishes in a formal manner the fraternal bonds that have already been developed and will continue to develop. Dual membership is of course allowed but is ultimately up to the hypothetical lodges in question. Ah now, that is a welcome clarification; thank you. It is good to have someone on board who has a clear understanding of the actual situation. Do you know where the notion of a "patent" originated? Tell me about it... although admittedly I have only 16 lodges on my hands. I'm thinking you may have more! S&F, Cora
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