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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 3, 2008 21:18:51 GMT
Bro. Karen would look good in a cat suit She wore that when I picked her up at the Airport, easy to spot you see.
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Post by penfold on Jul 3, 2008 21:52:50 GMT
Thank you brother brandt
BTW - used to work for the cat herders from Plano......
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Post by leonardo on Jul 4, 2008 7:45:10 GMT
Bro Leo, tell me about it! Indeed as DC of a Lodge I know what it is like "Herding Cats" ! Just loved the movie, then again I love cats anyway, my favourite creatures but being a Leo I suppose that figures. It sure could explain your natural tendency towards them. I like cats too, but Michelle doesn't. She's lucky cat's can't cook.
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Post by leonardo on Jul 4, 2008 7:49:41 GMT
Bro. Karen would look good in a cat suit She wore that when I picked her up at the Airport, easy to spot you see. A good idea and makes "purfect" sense ;D
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Post by brandt on Jul 4, 2008 14:30:50 GMT
I haven't spoken much about the Grand Orient's work as I have been busy with that work. I am not being intentionally obscure. I just have not had the opportunity to be more forthcoming due to time constraints in my life recently. As many of you know I have gone back to school and I am slaving away at that while working full time. I also must find time to deal with the administrative matters as Grand Secretary. Up until a few weeks ago I was also getting ready to get married.
All combined I just had little time to communicate with my old friends and brethren here. Sorry about that.
The treaty of amity establishes mutual recognition between the Grand Orient of France and the Grand Orient of the United States. The patent grants license for two specific rites of Free Masonry. This should be viewed as an aspect and understanding of the two pillars of Free Masonry; the administrative aspect and the initiatic aspect. The administrative pillar is solidified by the treaty of amity and the initiatic pillar is strengthened by a legitimate license for our work.
Frat.·. Brandt
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Post by leonardo on Jul 4, 2008 15:12:55 GMT
Thanks Bro. Brandt for that additional update and clarification. From a personal perspective I wish both GLs the very best and I am sure this coming together will prove beneficial for all concerned.
Good luck to you.
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Post by penfold on Jul 4, 2008 19:22:41 GMT
Does that mean that Grand Orient of the US is a "daughter" GL of the Grand Orient of France?
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Post by xiii on Jul 4, 2008 19:29:31 GMT
The patent grants license for two specific rites of Free Masonry. Frat.·. Brandt Can you explain this a little bit further? I seem to recall lodges being free to choose their own ritual was a point of pride for the GOUSA, but I may be wrong. Or are you talking about systems of higher degrees? Anyway, best of luck, and thank you for providing info.
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Post by corab on Jul 4, 2008 20:09:38 GMT
The treaty of amity establishes mutual recognition between the Grand Orient of France and the Grand Orient of the United States. The patent grants license for two specific rites of Free Masonry. This should be viewed as an aspect and understanding of the two pillars of Free Masonry; the administrative aspect and the initiatic aspect. The administrative pillar is solidified by the treaty of amity and the initiatic pillar is strengthened by a legitimate license for our work. Ah, that is very interesting, thank you for sharing that. When you speak of "rites", I take it you mean initiatic systems like the AASR and York Rite rather than rituals? I also find it very interesting -- and heartening! -- to see you refer the administrative and initiatic pillars. So many Brn:. I know seem to consider the two mutually exclusive; something I'll never get my head round, I'm afraid. Will GOUSA follow the organisational and administrative model of GOdF? S&F, Cora
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Jul 5, 2008 5:29:30 GMT
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Post by xiii on Jul 5, 2008 5:54:21 GMT
Ah, that is a beautiful piece of paper!
And it clears matters up: Scottish and French Rite.
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 5, 2008 8:19:36 GMT
Good! Thank you for posting that. Best Wishes to GOUSA, and its Members.
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Post by brandt on Jul 5, 2008 13:09:45 GMT
There is more to come in the not too distant future. We are working on several projects and other developments now. The patent is quite beautiful and was hand painted. The wording of the treaty you can read at our website in both English and French www.grandorientusa.org/news.asp As this information is now readily available to all some questions may arise. Please feel free to contact me directly if there are any questions that I can answer. Frat.·. Brandt
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Post by corab on Jul 6, 2008 5:45:28 GMT
Morning Bro:. Brandt,
I am hoping you can help me understand something that is possibly down to terminology being "lost in translation" between Obediencies and/or languages.
I understand a Patent and an Amity Treaty to be mutually exclusive, the former given to a sub-ordinate entity by way of permission to operate under one's auspices, the latter a mutual recognition between sovereign orders and a formal agreement to operate in amity.
Are you able to clarify what both sovereign bodies' understanding of a Patent is, and which was signed first: the Patent or the Amity Treaty?
I do apologise for all these questions, but am sure you'll appreciate the need for clarity. As expressed elsewhere, I am most grateful for your return to the forums, giving us an opportunity to communicate and learn from an official representative of your Obediences.
S&F,
Cora
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Post by brandt on Jul 6, 2008 20:22:50 GMT
I would have returned sooner but I found myself far busier than normal. Luckily most of that which was consuming time has passed and I now have the opportunity to correspond more with my Brothers and Sisters.
A patent, literally "license", can be for a number of things. It could be, as you mentioned in your previous post and license to operate under teh auspices of a "superior" organization. It can also be, as is our case, a legitimate transmission of a particular Masonic rite or lineage.
The treaty of amity is an administrative document.
Brandt
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Post by penfold on Jul 6, 2008 22:03:23 GMT
Bro Brandt thank you for continuing to update us. From the documents on the GO USA site it is now clear to me what the situation is with regard to the treaty of amity, and vis a vis the patent, which as you explain is a 'licence' to promulgate and practise the rights detailed in the patent, namely AASR and the French Rite. Each GL is sovereign and independent, as detailed in the amity treaty.
Do you know if the GOdF are planning to likewise announce these glad tidings on their site or in an official manner?
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Post by brandt on Jul 6, 2008 23:16:00 GMT
Yes, they are. Of course they will do that in their own time. That is just the way these things shake out. I am sorry to say that in the mean time all we can communicate are the documents that were given to us. C'est la vie.
There is more information that will be coming in the near future. I really do appreciate your patience in this matter.
Fraternally and most sincerely, Brandt
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Post by negredo on Jul 7, 2008 4:11:47 GMT
I have now seen what appears to be a patent, but in my French it only says that the GOdF gives the GOUSA permission to use the Rite Ecossais and the Rite Francais for only the Craft degrees. www.grandorientusa.org/news/newsimages/GoDFpatent_large.jpgwww.grandorientusa.org/news/20080604GOdFPatent.asp#It is nothing other than "permission" to use their rituals--which is a bit different than what is being announced on the website and can be misconstrued as as a document of official recognition: "The official Patent from the Grand Orient of France giving the Grand Orient of the United States of America legal Masonic authority to work in North America was signed in Paris on Friday, the 27th of June, 2008 at 9:15 AM EST. A Treaty of Amity was also signed between the two sovereign Masonic entities." So, my cynicism is still intact. I kindly suggest that you retain a better writer and interpreter of Masonic documents for the GOUSA website. The treaty of amity is just what it is: the two organizations are separate yet allow each to feel they are ok with the other. If someone can correct me otherwise, the GOUSA, through these two documents, cannot claim lineage or the patent as giving them other than permission to use the rites of the GOUSA. Unless I am completely incorrect, this to me does not say that there is recognition as we currently know it. Perhaps this will happen later, but I think what is being claimed is premature. The documents do not say anything but permission to use rituals and to be able to talk to each other. Please look at the documents and explain if i am wrong so that I may have better understanding.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 7, 2008 6:17:28 GMT
She wore that when I picked her up at the Airport, easy to spot you see. A good idea and makes "purfect" sense ;D Nope, t'wasn't an easy disguise but it was noticeable: As to the rest . . . I look forward to an announcement by the GOdF on its own web presence.
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Post by clermontfreemason on Jul 8, 2008 2:38:11 GMT
Vulcan Lodge of Accepted Free-Masons of Birmingham, Alabama voted unanimously at its regular stated business communication on July 7, 2008 at 6:00 PM requesting a charter with the Grand Orient of the United States of America Accepted Free-Masons. vulcanmasoniclodge.blogspot.com/If there is something wrong with my posts please email and let me know what I am doing wrong since my last post was edited I deleted it.
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