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Post by hollandr on Jul 11, 2008 9:29:39 GMT
I am reminded of the ambiguous saying: There are no limits to imagination
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 11, 2008 13:05:37 GMT
I am reminded of the ambiguous saying: There are no limits to imagination Indeed The oldest Masonic apron I saw was in a display of ancient egyptian artefacts.
The apron was an oblong - a little longer than is used in some lodges - with long ties and a gold braid border. The central fabric (linen?) was missing but otherwise it was easily recognisable and almost identical to the 1918 apron used for my raising
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Post by hollandr on Jul 11, 2008 21:49:07 GMT
So we know about telepathy with animals, how about with machines?
What about telepathy with cars?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 11, 2008 21:53:40 GMT
>The apron was an oblong - a little longer than is used in some lodges - with long ties and a gold braid border.
Philip
You may be able to correct me, but I recall that in the exhibition the waist ties of the apron were loose so that they could be seen.
In the photo the ties are looped so that they look like a waist band with no opening.
If the ties are loose as I recall then the egyptian apron is very similar to that used at my raising - the difference being in length.
Of course you may prefer to consider the apron as a kilt as suggested in the brochure.
Some at my lodge do wear kilts but those kilts all cover the behind as well as the front
For myself I am satisfied that the exhibit is Masonic because I used it to experience a detailed vision of the 3rd degree workings in those times.
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 11, 2008 22:34:58 GMT
I haven't personally experienced this, Bro Russell, but I have been told of pieces of machinery such as cars, machine tools, even cookers, washing machines etc which work for everyone but a particular person. They follow all the instructions to the letter but when alone and using it by themselves things go wrong but if another person is present it works properly.
Can inanimate objects have a persona? I don't know. Houses do but that could be the Genius Loci of the place, or revenant sprints tied to the building or location.
Stephen King wrote a story about a car with a malevolent persona, I think they made a movie of it?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 11, 2008 22:51:21 GMT
I remember a Scottish fellow who came to repair a washing machine that I was struggling with. He had a look and there was nothing wrong. He explained to me that washing machines often did that - they just wanted a rest.
And I met a fellow who said that he was good at repairing cars without any training. He just asked the car what was wrong. I think that might be fairly common.
About that time I discovered that cars had nature spirits and I was being given a ride by a friend. So I decided to assist his car by putting some energy into its nature spirit. About 30 seconds later my friend stopped the car and got out. He walked around the car looking closely at it. He got back in saying: I could have sworn I had a flat tire.
After that I left cars to their owners
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Post by hollandr on Jul 11, 2008 22:53:08 GMT
>Houses do but that could be the Genius Loci of the place
I was engaged in the partial restoration of a building dating from 1865. I was in the tea room and about to pour a cup. I complained to some one that the building did not like me. At that instant a picture fell off the wall and hit me on the nose
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 12, 2008 2:48:37 GMT
>The apron was an oblong - a little longer than is used in some lodges - with long ties and a gold braid border.
Philip
You may be able to correct me, but I recall that in the exhibition the waist ties of the apron were loose so that they could be seen. The 'apron' I saw was as pictured in the catalogue, no more, no less: Absolutely no fabric, ties or otherwise (I presume the band was fitted by means of a clasp and, as with much of the exhibit, we need to consider the likelihood that it was only intended for funeral use).
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Post by willied77 on Jul 12, 2008 10:43:08 GMT
I have always been told that my imagination is vivid. During my childhood years I used to write story upon story, mostly evolving around mythical beasts and strange long forgotten countries. I gave up writing during my teenage years once the urges of materialism gripped my body Recently I was back in my mothers house and cames across some of my writings. I laughed at one as in it I was describing myself as a Priest in Egypt, called Ra-Hom Seeba. I wrote in great detail about the Pyramids, hidden rooms under the Great Lion and strange rituals which I performed. Now I wrote this around the age of 7 and when I read it I was astounded at the similarity it had to what the scientific community now thinks Egypitian civiliastion was like. Perhaps imagination is our body/soul's way of retaining the connection to the past/present/future. Perhaps our imagination is the greatest untapped power we are blessed with?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 12, 2008 21:21:25 GMT
Well it may be that what we call imagination is actually the ability to process images. The actual images may have various sources and various purposes - including attracting dense matter so as to precipitate as forms.
I recall a teenager who told me that all his spiritual instruction was by Pan. He said that when assisted by nature spirits that he could precipitate objects by visualisation - for example a garden spade. He said that if he visualised an object incorrectly it would be malformed and he would send it back
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 12, 2008 22:05:42 GMT
Well it may be that what we call imagination is actually the ability to process images. Indeed—Which brings us back to unicorns, which were first devised by medieval philosophers to demonstrate how imagination is limited by our prior experience and understanding, so that we cannot imagine anything utterly novel. In other words: We know of horses and we know of horns, so we can imagine a horned horse; we know of numbers, so we an imagine a single horn instead of two; thus we can form a composite image of an imaginary creature (BTW, there was originally no suggestion of flight and, among the supposed, essential characteristics of a unicorn, was its non-existence). Now, having created the idea of a unicorn, is it real?—Only in our imagination. Confusing imagination with reality only adds further layers of illusion to that in which we are already immersed and results in efforts such as this, whereby you imagined a so-called 'apron' as being much more than it objectively was and you now appear to be trying to validate your subjective imagination over and above that reality. As for your account of flying a unicorn over around the North Pole!? I too could describe such an account; I too could immerse myself in the story, as if it were true; I too could describe my imaginary story to others and have some believe in it, at some level (hopefully only at the time); some may indeed be lead to anticipate and imagine similar features to those imagined by others; but all this does not make the story true, except in my imagination and theirs, at the time. Which is it to be?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 12, 2008 22:25:35 GMT
>unicorns, which were first devised by medieval philosophers
"One of the first Unicorns is said to have appeared almost 5,000 years ago to give Emperor Fu Hsi the secrets of written language. Then, almost 4,700 years ago in 2697 B.C., another Unicorn made an appearance in the garden of the Yellow Emperor (Huang Di). This auspicious omen was seen by the emperor as a sign that his reign would be long and peaceful. Two Unicorns also lived during the reign of Emperor Yao, the fourth of the Five Emperors who shaped the world 4,000 years ago."
Philip, perhaps you would like to start another thread examining the role of unicorns in world mythology
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 12, 2008 22:58:42 GMT
>unicorns, which were first devised by medieval philosophers
"One of the first Unicorns is said to have appeared almost 5,000 years ago to give Emperor Fu Hsi the secrets of written language. Then, almost 4,700 years ago in 2697 B.C., another Unicorn made an appearance in the garden of the Yellow Emperor (Huang Di). This auspicious omen was seen by the emperor as a sign that his reign would be long and peaceful. Two Unicorns also lived during the reign of Emperor Yao, the fourth of the Five Emperors who shaped the world 4,000 years ago."
Philip, perhaps you would like to start another thread examining the role of unicorns in world mythology Russell, Little seems to sink in: This is all about imagination and we have already exhausted the subject of unicorns elsewhere, including your Chinese example (a.k.a. a kylin or lin), which was a very different imaginary creature (scales, etc., whereas you had said a unicorn's silky coat was one of its essential characteristics) to the creature imagined by the medieval philosophers. Unfortunately Westerns in China hearing of these imaginary creatures called them by a name with which they were already familiar, (similarly, medieval biblical translators rendered the Hebrew word for auroch as unicorn). Yet again, your imagination goes much further than the objective reality
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Post by hollandr on Jul 12, 2008 23:07:11 GMT
>we have already exhausted the subject of unicorns elsewhere
Then this thread may continue
And perhaps we may learn more about the inner and outer uses of imagination
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 12, 2008 23:20:29 GMT
>we have already exhausted the subject of unicorns elsewhere
Then this thread may continue
And perhaps we may learn more about the inner and outer uses of imagination Indeed: Now, getting back to what I said before: Confusing imagination with reality only adds further layers of illusion to that in which we are already immersed and results in efforts such as this, whereby you imagined a so-called 'apron' as being much more than it objectively was and you now appear to be trying to validate your subjective imagination over and above that reality. As for your account of flying a unicorn over around the North Pole!? I too could describe such an account; I too could immerse myself in the story, as if it were true; I too could describe my imaginary story to others and have some believe in it, at some level (hopefully only at the time); some may indeed be lead to anticipate and imagine similar features to those imagined by others; but all this does not make the story true, except in my imagination and theirs, at the time. Which is it to be?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 13, 2008 3:25:31 GMT
Philip
Perhaps you might tell which pill you have chosen
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 13, 2008 4:09:17 GMT
Philip
Perhaps you might tell which pill you have chosen REALITY, with all its messy, unexplained and unexpainable details; its responsibilities and consequences; and the frustrations of dealing with those for whom their imagination is their reality, despite evidence to the contrary.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 13, 2008 4:23:11 GMT
So which colour is that?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 13, 2008 5:55:43 GMT
Well, for what it's worth , in the movie it was the red pill. However, this is a metaphor! What is important here is the meaning, the stark REALITY of life as it is.
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Post by maximus on Jul 13, 2008 6:05:19 GMT
Morpheus: "At last. Welcome Neo, as you no doubt have guessed. I AM Morpheus. Neo:Its an honor to meet you Morpheus:No the honor is mine. Please come, sit. I imagine that right now you are feeling a bit like Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole Neo:You could say that Morpheus:I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees, because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth....do you believe in fate Neo? Neo:no. Morpheus:why not? Neo:Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life! Morpheus:I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there, like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about? The Matrix Do you want to know what it is? The matrix is everywhere, its all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window o when you turn your TV. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Neo:What truth? Morpheus:That you are a slave Neo, like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you can not smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind. Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see what it is for yourself. This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back. You take the blue pill the story ends. You wake up in bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more."
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