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Post by hollandr on Jul 18, 2008 22:35:34 GMT
>"So, what is the nature of this particular [apron] reality?"
Like all objects on all levels of existence (unless metaphysically cleansed) it has links to previous owners and situations and possibly links to future owners and situations
Hence the apron may be used as a portal to past and future events and their actors and patrons
A simple form of this is psychometry
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 18, 2008 22:45:24 GMT
Then what is the nature of your description and its relationship to the reality of the 'apron' itself? The apron was an oblong - a little longer than is used in some lodges - with long ties and a gold braid border. The central fabric (linen?) was missing but otherwise it was easily recognisable and almost identical to the 1918 apron used for my raising
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Post by hollandr on Jul 18, 2008 23:20:32 GMT
As you will be aware I corrected that statement having seen the photo and agreed that it was not quite identical to the 1918 apron used for my raising but nevertheless was still easily recognisable by me.
I used that apron to obtained a clear vision of an ancient egyptian raising
And it was most instructive
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 18, 2008 23:34:58 GMT
As you will be aware I corrected that statement having seen the photo and agreed that it was not quite identical to the 1918 apron used for my raising but nevertheless was still easily recognisable by me. While I ask that you please show where you clearly and openly corrected that statement (I have been following this closely), you now appear to be 'not quite' [sic] admitting you were wrong. Your statement appeared to objectively describe an actual object. As you now appear to be saying this was based more on what you wanted to see, your subjective psychic (emotional) impressions, as distinct from the objective reality, how then are we to take any of your pontifications and prognostications at face value in future?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 19, 2008 1:35:12 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 19, 2008 2:24:56 GMT
My apologies, I appear to have missed your "Late edit" >Oh yeah, obviously a Masonic apron.
Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable - but it did seem almost identical to the 1918 apron with tying ribbons used at my raising.
(Late edit: the above image was not showing on the computer I used to reply to this. I must admit that it is not too much like the apron used at my raising. Nevertheless I recognised it as an apron and it immediately gave me access to a vision of an egyptian 3rd degree - which ritual seemed to retain some of the secrets)
And linking to it did give me an interesting vision of egyptian ritual
Still I suppose each of us must find our own path in recovering the secrets and mysteries of ancient Freemasonry Still this raises questions about your credibility and powers of observation (or lack thereof) when, knowing the characteristics of a Masonic apron and looking directly at the Egyptian artifact, you supposedly saw what you have earlier confidently described.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 19, 2008 4:50:49 GMT
>Still this raises questions about your credibility
Go for it Philip
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 19, 2008 6:40:13 GMT
>Still this raises questions about your credibility
Go for it Philip For now, I simply note that you are demonstrably unreliable as a source.
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Post by maat on Jul 21, 2008 23:54:27 GMT
So, what is the nature of this particular [/i] [apron] reality?"[/quote] ;D I'm starting to wonder! So many photos and such a keen interest, Tamrin. Why does it excite you so much? Maat
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Post by maat on Jul 22, 2008 0:04:04 GMT
Right now... next question...
'Have you considered that FACTS and TRUTH are NOT the same, but both are REAL. From this one could argue that REALITY is 'an experience'.
Example - it is a fact that if you look at a red letter box and tell your friend it is red, that is a fact.
BUT, the truth is that because of the nature of light and the way that our eyes work, the letter box is not red, it is the only colour that is not part of the letterbox. It is the only colour of the spectrum that is rejected by the energy packet that forms the physical object we know as a letterbox. The eye is seeing what is rejected.
REALITY IS - we EXPERIENCE the letterbox as red.
Maat
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 22, 2008 1:24:36 GMT
So, what is the nature of this particular [/i] [apron] reality?"[/size][/quote] ;D I'm starting to wonder! So many photos and such a keen interest, Tamrin. Why does it excite you so much?
Maat[/quote] Why? Because Bro. Russell makes many extraordinary, condescending and supposedly authoritative, bunkum pontifications and prognostications which are impossible to test. Here we have a demonstration of him confidently asserting something where one can demonstrate that his grasp of the facts, reality and of the truth, proves a slip. Given that demonstration, his "authority" is discredited and his opinions are seen to be typical of the subjective rubbish from the Crystal Crowds, Tinfoil Hat Brigades and Conspiracy Camps. Perhaps now we can get on with some serious discussions without him interjecting with his infantile talk of giants, aliens and unicorns; the "New Dispensation" and seven solar systems orbiting Alcyone garbage he picked up from the anti-Semitic ravings of Alice and Foster Bailey; or, indeed, his Sitchen nonsense.
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Post by maat on Jul 22, 2008 2:33:57 GMT
I, for one, enjoy Bro Russell's contributions. I don't always agree with his opinions, nor he with mine, but we respect each other, and as fellow travellers like to swap stories of what we have experienced in lands near and far.
Travellers in ages have always told fantastic stories, which those who remained at home found hard to believe.
Maat
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 22, 2008 3:12:40 GMT
Many traveler's tales have been subsequently confirmed, while other tales, as here, have been debunked.
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 22, 2008 8:55:38 GMT
Maat, I too like Bro Russell and enjoy his contributions. Being of a Spiritual and Esoteric nature myself I learn much from his Mystical experience although I have not (as yet) seen anything like as interesting. He also helped guide my steps towards the form of Freemasonry which I now enjoy.
I look forward to his postings and he is a welcome and honoured contributor to my own Forum. His open mind and lack of pedantry are refreshing!
Bro Russell, don't let the b*****ds grind you down! Keep enthralling us with your experiences and insights.
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Post by whistler on Jul 22, 2008 10:24:19 GMT
Why? Because Bro. Russell makes many extraordinary, condescending and supposedly authoritative, bunkum pontifications and prognostications which are impossible to test. Here we have a demonstration of him confidently asserting something where one can demonstrate that his grasp of the facts, reality and of the truth, proves a slip. Given that demonstration, his "authority" is discredited and his opinions are seen to be typical of the subjective rubbish from the Crystal Crowds, Tinfoil Hat Brigades and Conspiracy Camps.
Perhaps now we can get on with some serious discussions without him interjecting with his infantile talk of giants, aliens and unicorns; the "New Dispensation" and seven solar systems orbiting Alcyone garbage he picked up from the anti-Semitic ravings of Alice and Foster Bailey; or, indeed, his Sitchen nonsense. Wow Tamrin if this is the quality of personal attacks that one would also find on your new board - I am glad my Logon will not work. What incredible arrogance just because you can't see how it can be. to say that "giants, aliens and unicorns" can't exist. That is the arrogance of man. In a Universe as vast as ours a man only shows his limitations when he claims things he can't understand are impossible. It is the same arrogance when which are impossible to test a man expects to be able to test everything, when those he expects to test have nothing to prove, It is best man accepts his limitations and watches and observes
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Post by penfold on Jul 22, 2008 11:02:25 GMT
Strewth! Getting a bit lively in 'ere innit? Ma'at any room under that table of yours?
Could we get the drink-bots to do a round to calm everyone down?
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 22, 2008 11:46:08 GMT
Bro Russell, why do you think I slung him off "The Chequered Pavement" and erased all his postings there and have blocked his IP address?
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 22, 2008 13:03:10 GMT
What incredible arrogance just because you can't see how it can be. to say that "giants, aliens and unicorns" can't exist. That is the arrogance of man. In a Universe as vast as ours a man only shows his limitations when he claims things he can't understand are impossible. It is the same arrogance when which are impossible to test a man expects to be able to test everything, when those he expects to test have nothing to prove, It is best man accepts his limitations and watches and observes Ummm... Tossing out a few weasel word qualifications, one might note that Bro. Russell has acknowledged he was wrong in this instance!?
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Post by maat on Jul 22, 2008 23:02:36 GMT
Tamrin, does it really matter? When people believe stuff, they believe it. Doesn't mean that it is right, wrong, real, unreal. It is their belief. You have your beliefs, I have mine, others have theirs. And we might honour their beliefs as we honour our own. I rather think that the value of this situation lies in finding those areas where the beliefs overlap. If you take a vesica piscis as a starting point and then work your way outwards... both circles get to see a bigger picture. And when the bigger picture become the total picture (the circles overlap completely) - there is ONE... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesica_PiscisMaat
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 22, 2008 23:30:53 GMT
Tamrin, does it really matter? In the context of this thread, Yes!
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