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Post by magusmasonica on Jun 3, 2009 15:38:26 GMT
According to the web site of the GLNF the "French Rite" was elaborated by the GOdF in 1780 and adopted in 1785. This would indicate that various rituals were in use by freemasons prior to this date existed. However, the rite that is known today dates from 1780. Link in French (http://www.glnf.asso.fr/page.asp?arb_n_id=153) It is said that the origins of this rite date from at least 1725 when British exiles (this falls within the time of the Jacobite Troubles in Scotland) who were masons went to France and brought with them the ritual of the Grand Lodge of London which was then in time translated into French and used in french lodges prior to the adoption of the rite as we know it in 1785. Link in French from the GLTSO (http://www.gltso.org/rft.htm) I can't pin-point an exact date for the 3 first degrees of the AASR. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this facet of the question Ahhh, I see. Thanks for posting that my Brother. I know that there has been a resurgence of sorts of this Rite in the USA. I like it, not my favorite. I am all for all Masonic rites even the one that aren't my cup of tea. Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Jun 3, 2009 15:40:42 GMT
The Lauderdale Ritual - www.droithumain.org/uk/html/craft_rituals.html - Previous versions are known outside of the British Federation as the Dharma or Sydney Ritual and in this instance, the reference is to the 1992 working – there were several earlier editions. The Lauderdale is a beautiful ritual, even though I am no fan of hyms ;D I have heard that the original Dharmic is still practiced in India but I have not found any official sign of it Love and Light,
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Post by bigjohn835 on Jun 11, 2009 2:30:43 GMT
When you say rite, are you talking about for instance Scottish or York? I'm just trying to understand this thread, as I come from that cookie cutter style of freemasonry, that makes master masons in a matter of 3 months. And yes, they have even done the one day class, much to my dismay.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jun 11, 2009 3:19:37 GMT
When you say rite, are you talking about for instance Scottish or York? I'm just trying to understand this thread, as I come from that cookie cutter style of freemasonry, that makes master masons in a matter of 3 months. And yes, they have even done the one day class, much to my dismay. Wow, how much time do u have? ;D
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Post by architekt on Jun 11, 2009 13:13:53 GMT
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Post by magusmasonica on Jun 11, 2009 14:38:43 GMT
As I have observed before I find it odd do declare anything "defunct" that is still in practice. Just because the orthodoxy doesn't practice it, that doesn't mean much.
I guess they do need an excuse to restruct their membership from seeking out other Rites and ritual that they have no "legal" access to. Kind of reminds me of "nevermind that man behind the curtain." ;D
Love and Light,
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Post by john1234s on Jun 12, 2009 18:26:52 GMT
I can't pin-point an exact date for the 3 first degrees of the AASR. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this facet of the question ~ 1804
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Post by architekt on Jun 13, 2009 0:26:20 GMT
Why 1804? I would imagine the SR was confering the first 3 degrees before that date in Louisiana, USA.
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Post by john1234s on Jun 13, 2009 16:52:05 GMT
Because that's the "about" date when the 3 SR craft degrees were written. I would imagine the SR was confering the first 3 degrees before that date in Louisiana, USA. I sure you can imagine it, but it didn't happen. The "SR" Lodges in New Orleans existed prior to the circular of 1802, but they worked other rituals for the craft Degrees.
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Post by john1234s on Jun 13, 2009 23:05:38 GMT
Any idea who actually wrote those 3 Craft degrees circa 1804? No, but Pierre Noel has shown that the Degree material is pretty much "3 Distinct Knocks" with a bit of traditional French Rite mixed in as well. Ironically, this gives an English "origin" to the SR craft Degrees.
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Post by architekt on Jun 13, 2009 23:34:04 GMT
It would seem then that the 3 Craft degrees being used before 1804 were of English origin and a mix of the French Rite. The expose T D K was published in 1760. Then circa 1804 the 3 'American' blue lodge degrees of Preston-Webb were then used (substituted) as the basis for the SR symbolic lodge degrees - even though they do not confer them. Charleston, South Carolina Masonic Timeline - www.scscottishrite.org/history/charlestontimeline.htmNo regular Scottish Rite Body in the Southern Jurisdiction has ever conferred the first three Degrees. However, the Scottish Rite Ritual is used in some few cases, in Grand Lodge jurisdictions in the United States. The Scottish Rite Blue Lodge rituals are more esoteric and differ significantly from the Webb-form (York Rite) Blue Lodge rituals commonly used in the United States. The Scottish Rite Craft Degrees - www.cornerstonepublishers.com/mdcd.pdfA Brief History of the Scottish Rite Craft Degrees in America - www.germania46.org/srhistory.htm - The degree work conducted in the Scottish Rite craft lodges is more involved and lengthier that the York Rite cousin and is probably closer to the original Rite of Perfection. The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite lodge ritual was first worked in Louisiana in 1807 when the Supreme Council in Jamaica, the third oldest Supreme Council, created a lodge in New Orleans. Other lodges followed, chartered by Supreme Councils of the West Indies or France.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jun 14, 2009 3:03:31 GMT
To make matters even more confusing is that both the AASR SJ and NJ in the USA have only a slight resemblence to the authentic AASR in the rest of the world. The names of the degrees are the same but the rituals have been continuously modified.
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Post by john1234s on Jun 14, 2009 5:59:23 GMT
To make matters even more confusing is that both the AASR SJ and NJ in the USA have only a slight resemblence to the authentic AASR in the rest of the world. Tha names of the degrees are the same but the rituals have been continuously modified. Care to elaborate? Being that you've never gone through either the SMJ or NMJ SR Degrees and the Southern Jurisdiction is the Mother Supreme Council of the world, how are you in any position to claim that the work done, especially by the SMJ is not "authentic"?
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Post by architekt on Jun 15, 2009 1:43:01 GMT
In fact it is the NMJ that every few years keeping 'messing' around with the names and themes and meanings of the degrees. That seems to be the result of the ritual committee of their Supreme Council. The SJ fortunately does not do that.
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Post by john1234s on Jun 15, 2009 2:15:08 GMT
In fact it is the NMJ that every few years keeping 'messing' around with the names and themes and meanings of the degrees. That seems to be the result of the ritual committee of their Supreme Council. The SJ fortunately does not do that. Indeed, and I happen to sit on the ritual committee of another regular Supreme Council and I find it highly offensive when someone spouts off with generalites of how the NA Supreme Councils are no longer working the "authentic" SR Degrees and everything European is wonderful.
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Post by freefalcon on Jun 16, 2009 18:28:42 GMT
I wanted to know how long it takes to earn the first degree and how long it takes to earn the first three degrees. I assume it is different with each person but on average how long does it take?
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Post by leonardo on Jun 16, 2009 18:48:58 GMT
I wanted to know how long it takes to earn the first degree and how long it takes to earn the first three degrees. I assume it is different with each person but on average how long does it take? It really depend on the lodge. Some lodges can be very busy and it might take many months before a candidate is actually Initiated. And then it can take many more months before they are Passed to Fellow Craft, and so on. It took me around 18 months from the time I was Initiated to when I was Raised in the 3rd Degree. I have heard that in some instances it can be much quicker. For example, in some parts of the States one can become a 32 degree Mason in a week-end!
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Post by freefalcon on Jun 16, 2009 18:56:04 GMT
That sounds very similar to what the masons that I met at the lodge said to me. Are there degrees above the 33rd degree?
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 16, 2009 19:18:36 GMT
That sounds very similar to what the masons that I met at the lodge said to me. Are there degrees above the 33rd degree? There are different brands of Freemasonry. all of which claim they are the best. In mine there is nothing above 3rd degree that makes any difference. I am UGLE, the other posters are referring to their Orders, which can get confusing when someone tells you there are 99 degrees. It is only in that Order that they exist. My rule of judgement is quite simple if your not enjoying Freemasonry by the time you get to the second degree, leave, it is not for you. In the US it is not uncommon to get to a 32nd degree in a few years. In the UK it will probably take 25 years or more. I repeat, there is nothing [ as far as I am concerned, it is just my opinion] superior to being a Master Mason. I have met Master Masons that were made in a day and wonderful Masons they are, I know some who have been Master Masons for 30 years, and I could spend all day slapping them. so please do not equate degrees with worthiness, look at the man, not how many pieces of metal adorn his collar.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jun 16, 2009 19:29:55 GMT
To make matters even more confusing is that both the AASR SJ and NJ in the USA have only a slight resemblence to the authentic AASR in the rest of the world. Tha names of the degrees are the same but the rituals have been continuously modified. Care to elaborate? Being that you've never gone through either the SMJ or NMJ SR Degrees and the Southern Jurisdiction is the Mother Supreme Council of the world, how are you in any position to claim that the work done, especially by the SMJ is not "authentic"? Umm the rituals are not that hard to come by. When compared to the original French AASR (called the REAA in France) it becomes really apperant. Never mind that Pike also admitted that he took the names and changed the rest. Morin's charter is hotley debated as to it's authenticity. What else would you like to discuss? Love and Light,
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