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Post by hollandr on Jul 27, 2008 3:28:37 GMT
I recall many years ago seeing a temple-like building with an engraving above the entrance along the line of: there is no religion higher than truth.
Leaving aside whether one needs a religion, I wonder whether Truth is indeed the highest quality to which humans may aspire.
Perhaps it once was but I doubt that it is the case today.
What then might be higher than Truth?
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 27, 2008 4:31:34 GMT
"There is No Religion Higher than Truth" is the English version of The Theosophical Society's motto. The maxim does not rule out the possibility of something higher but, whatever that something is, it will be true.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 27, 2008 4:53:20 GMT
>What then might be higher than Truth?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 27, 2008 5:31:16 GMT
>What then might be higher than Truth? The Mystic Tie, the Unity of All that Is, the One Life!
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Post by hollandr on Jul 27, 2008 5:38:24 GMT
>The Mystic Tie, the Unity of All that Is, the One Life!
Does this mean that Love is higher than Truth?
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Post by maximus on Jul 27, 2008 6:26:30 GMT
>The Mystic Tie, the Unity of All that Is, the One Life! Does this mean that Love is higher than Truth? Love is the law, love under will.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 27, 2008 8:00:18 GMT
>The Mystic Tie, the Unity of All that Is, the One Life!
Does this mean that Love is higher than Truth? I would want to qualify that cliché: From a Buddhist perspective, while a Bodhisattva choses the path of selfless-love, renouncing bliss to serve others, until all sentient beings have achieved enlightenment, an Arhat, fully realising their Unity with All that Is, asks, "For whom am I waiting?" and chooses the path of Self-love, knowing that the true Self encompasses All.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 27, 2008 8:44:48 GMT
>I would want to qualify that cliché: From a Buddhist perspective, while a Bodhisattva choses the path of selfless-love, renouncing bliss to serve others, until all sentient beings have achieved enlightenment, an Arhat, fully realising their Unity with All that Is, asks, "For whom am I waiting?" and chooses the path of Self-love, knowing that the true Self encompasses All.
Was that a Yes?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 27, 2008 10:35:21 GMT
It was a sort of!
However, I am reaching for something along the lines of, but not quite, the classical epitome,
"The good, the true and the beautiful."
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Post by corab on Jul 27, 2008 10:47:46 GMT
"The highest ideal in life is to serve" -- Lauderdale, 2nd degree.
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Post by maat on Jul 29, 2008 0:12:13 GMT
Love is All - All is Love
"When we know love matters more than anything, and we know that nothing else REALLY matters, we move into the state of surrender. Surrender does not diminish our power, it enhances it.
You'll discover that real love is millions of miles past falling in love with anyone or anything. When you make that one effort to feel compassion instead of blame or self-blame, the heart opens again and continues opening.
When you have compassion and surrender to your own heart, you are surrendering to the hidden power in your heart, God. You are surrendering to love, because God is Love, the cohesive force of the universe that connects us all. Surrender is not just a religious concept; it's a power tool for listening to the voice of your spirit and following its directions. When you surrender your head to your heart, you allow your heart to give you a wider, higher intelligence perspective. Remember the phrase, "The real teacher is within you." Very simply, that teacher is to be found in the common sense of your own heart.
Sara Paddison, Hidden Power of the Heart
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Post by maat on Jul 29, 2008 0:13:23 GMT
This is the reason for the S... of F....... ?
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 29, 2008 16:39:37 GMT
quid est veritas?
So asked Pontius Pilate, and he has never yet received a satisfactory answer. Partly this might be because truth is actually a bit like art: something we think we know when we see it, but really all we know (or all we think we know) is what truth isn't; or rather, what isn't truth.
The very fact of talking about truth as the highest goal points up the irresoluble dilemma of using a finite and imperfect medium (language) to attempt to describe something infinite and perfect. We are saying highest goal, but this is a figure of speech, a thing intended to be interpreted and not taken literally. What we mean is something like best condition we can create; but even this is still to be stranded in the whole morass of relativism, considering high things to be better than low things, and indeed, good things to be more desirable than bad things.
After a while, it just leaves you feeling you wish you'd kept your trap shut in the first place.
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Post by leonardo on Jul 29, 2008 19:39:33 GMT
For me "Truth" is relative: one person can see something as truth while another, seeing the same thing, recognise it as something else.
Same with so called ultimate truth, 'tis all a matter of perception and what may be true for others may not be true for you/me.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 29, 2008 22:11:47 GMT
I think that one of the problems with truth is reification - that is the quality of trueness is turned into a noun - truth
Thus trueness is always about being true to a standard - such as a plumb line.
Once trueness is turned into a noun then it can be linguistically and logically manipulated as if it were a thing - generating a range of philosophical problems such as the existence of Truth abstracted from context.
Hence Truth does not exist while Trueness (to some reference) does.
So the proper question is not :Is this the truth?
But rather: To what is this statement true?
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Post by corab on Jul 30, 2008 11:54:16 GMT
That is a most astute observation, Russell -- one I hadn't considered before.
Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves then, is whether there actual *is* such a thing as "truth". By verbalising a noun we may have created a concept that has no basis in existence.
Very interesting thought to ponder!
S&F,
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 30, 2008 17:18:19 GMT
If "God" (or whatever name one cares to use for the Deity) is Supreme Being then they must be Absolute Truth.
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Post by ericb on Jul 30, 2008 17:53:43 GMT
Looking through these postings, I am reminded of a comment from Roger Waters (lately of Pink Floyd) when asked about truth in the disputes between him and his former bandmates he replied that there was "my side, their side and the cold, cold truth".
None of us can really say what is truth, as we all have a standpoint which, even as innocent and seemingly neutral bystanders will have a slight bias. You might be a neutral observer at a football game and see something happen on the pitch that looks innocuous, but another neutral obsever on the other side of the pitch might see the same incident as something wilful.
That's my tuppenceworth.
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Post by leonardo on Jul 30, 2008 18:56:48 GMT
None of us can really say what is truth, as we all have a standpoint which, even as innocent and seemingly neutral bystanders will have a slight bias. You might be a neutral observer at a football game and see something happen on the pitch that looks innocuous, but another neutral obsever on the other side of the pitch might see the same incident as something wilful. This is my understanding, too. Everything is relative and dependant upon perception.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 30, 2008 20:15:48 GMT
>So, then what does this do when applied to the word "G-d?"
Is not God a function?
What then is the god that gave rise to the cells in your body? Did you the witnesser create the cells (based on a previous pattern) for some purpose unknown to the cells, hold them in existence and then extinguish them when appropriate?
Perhaps it is worth distinguishing the local creator (god) functions from the Source of All
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