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Post by astraia on Aug 11, 2008 4:51:04 GMT
Depends which end you want me to start! I'm not sure what you mean by "test" - but if you mean against reality - well that's a long long debate because of course we can't truly and honestly "prove" the correctness of any theory as such when it comes to eschatological debate! If you mean "test" as in "compare" then well right now I'm simply using it as a backdrop to the intellectual and philosophical mindset of Renaissance esotericism so I'm not worrying about whether it's "true" or not (can't claim truth for anything in this branch of academia , all we can do is accept that this is what people believed and then try to see their work through their eyes. That's what I mean by saying "studying something on its own terms"). If you mean my own personal take, it comes in answer to your next point: I'd say not exactly several souls, but several 'levels' or 'aspects' of the soul (in Western traditions starting with Aristotle and continuing in Theosophy and Anthroposophy - I'm not overly familiar with Eastern traditions). Regardless of that - as I say - we can't actually "know" the validity of any of them. My sense is that in a way, they are all valid inasmuch as they function as mental or spiritual aides for our intellectual and spiritual understanding of "what-is-soul" for whatever spiritual purpose we seek that understanding. So it doesn't matter if theory X is right for me and theory Y is right for you - so long as we have a common point of reference - which is the concept of soul - and so long as it serves our purpose. I daresay many of us, and many initiates in the past, each have a very deep and personal sense of what the soul is and how it works. For some it's an intuitive leap, for others a sense of function and mathematical hierarchy works better - Aristotle went so far as to look at it in terms of being part of a physiological function. Whether or not he was right doesn't matter - he influenced generations of thinkers from a number of disciplines for the best part of 2000 years - which means that for some he was right - and those seeking to prove him wrong developed theories of their own with an equal measure of influence. If that served its purpose then who's to say what is real or not. IMHO Perhaps that "inner sense of knowing" (gnosis) I'm sure many here will recognise is the greatest test of truth there really is within our human faculties - and it is that "knowing" as opposed to dusty dry "2+2=4 knowing that makes all the difference. Personally (and with absolutely no offence meant towards those who may hold a different view) the view of soul among other elements of doctrine upheld by the mainstream Christian Church has never worked for me (despite being raised in a more or less Christian household). I searched until I found an explanation that did work. People close to me who are devout Christians find all the answers they need within Christian doctrine - and I respect that - I cannot walk their path and they cannot walk mine. So I guess in the end "metaphysical reality" is only real insofar as it is real to each one of us on a subjective level - despite the bloodshed that has surrounded theological debate for centuries It's the blind men and the elephant anecdote again methinks.....
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Post by beersheva on Mar 1, 2014 19:07:59 GMT
The Gnostics claimed that when the soul fell through the Aeons, it took on the TORPOR of SATURN, the GLUTTONY and GREED of JUPITER, the VIOLENCE and WRATH of MARS, the ARROGANCE and PRIDE of the SUN, the LUST of VENUS, the LYING and THIEVERY of MERCURY, the INCONSTANCY of the MOON, and ended up in the BODY of 4 ELEMENTS. The nature of MAGIA and ALCHEMY and FREEMASONRY, as some claim, is to restore the PLANETARY ARCHETYPES to their divine state and equilibrium, by degrees, in order to find the PHILOSOPHERS STONE. VITRIOL.
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Post by peter2 on Mar 1, 2014 21:24:33 GMT
>took on the TORPOR of SATURN, the GLUTTONY and GREED of JUPITER, the VIOLENCE and WRATH of MARS, the ARROGANCE and PRIDE of the SUN, the LUST of VENUS, the LYING and THIEVERY of MERCURY, the INCONSTANCY of the MOON, and ended up in the BODY of 4 ELEMENTS
That seems to be closely related to the ladder as used in the Mithraic tradition - a rung for each of 7 "planets" with associated symbols.
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Post by beersheva on Mar 1, 2014 21:52:58 GMT
Yes, many MYSTERY TRADITIONS used the same or similar concepts, but sometimes only gave them different NAMES.
Although Carl Jung was NOT an initiate, and never penetrated to the arcane secrets of Alchemy or kabbalah, he understood the dynamics of the PLANETARY ARCHETYPES within the consciousness of each human/proto human.
It is the task of each person who embarks on a true initiated path to restore equilibrium to the "7 ancient planets within himself" and conquer their negative manifestations. The fragments of the MYSTERY TRADITIONS are scattered in numerous places, and requires great study and arduous penetratation, along with the highest morality and other VIRTUES to comprehend it. It cannot, and never has been penetrated by the PROFANE MAN.
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Post by peter2 on Mar 1, 2014 22:51:50 GMT
... scattered in numerous places, and requires great study and arduous penetratation, along with the highest morality and other VIRTUES to comprehend it. In my process, active assistance from the inner planes was of great value in establishing proper practices. I came to conceptual understandings of the ancient mysteries only after having established effective practices.
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Post by beersheva on Mar 1, 2014 23:15:57 GMT
I agree. "MAGIA is a great secret WISDOM, just as REASON is a great public FOLLY".....Brother Paracelsus.
This is also stated by the GNOSTIC adepts: That the GNOSIS allows the individual to penetrate the various "SPHERES" above, one by one, when armed with the "correct" NAMES, FORCES, and VIRTUES required by the "guardian" of each SPHERE or emanation who tests and examines each ascending soul.
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Post by peter2 on Mar 1, 2014 23:44:14 GMT
This is also stated by the GNOSTIC adepts: That the GNOSIS allows the individual to penetrate the various "SPHERES" above, one by one, when armed with the "correct" NAMES, FORCES, and VIRTUES required by the "guardian" of each SPHERE or emanation who tests and examines each ascending soul. This is an interesting concept for me, a militarized perspective of the inner planes. (I wonder if it is not based on a mythology of warring gods as occupying forces of the Earth. See for example the access protocol required by Gilgamesh to enter "the landing place" from which it was possible to ascend to the heavens. The militarized view appears in the 18th degree with its generals. The candidate needs to get past a marshall and a captain of the guard before being allowed to access that mysterious ladder.) For myself, I prefer a relationship metaphor in which the Beings of the Planes (Lords of Karma), and their subsidiary beings, recognise those who have learned the inner skills, integrity and alignment necessary for safer operation within those spheres. These abilities can be conceptualised in terms of names (understanding the forces), forces (control of the chakra energies) and virtues (purification of the chakras) But I would not claim my experiences to be typical, so the relationship approach may not be so common. Mathew 11 12 `And, from the days of John the Baptist till now, the reign of the heavens doth suffer violence, and violent men do take it by force
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Post by beersheva on Mar 1, 2014 23:51:57 GMT
It's not a militarized perspective to me. When one desires entrance to even a Kings' outer court on the physical plane, not just anyone can gain an audience at any proximity. Even more difficult is the access to higher beings, intelligences, spirits etc, as one attempts the elevation of spheres, palaces or Sephirot ascending towards the UNITY of the LIGHT. Read: The PROFANE are NOT allowed entrance.
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