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Post by hollandr on Sept 14, 2008 22:45:43 GMT
This is a question for women only:
- Do you use different kicking styles when swimming in the ocean and in fresh water?
What is the difference?
Why?
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 15, 2008 23:31:12 GMT
Nope. Do you?
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Post by chriswitt on Sept 16, 2008 19:23:23 GMT
Am intrigued Bro Russell Why is the question for women only?
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Post by hollandr on Sept 16, 2008 22:38:42 GMT
>Why is the question for women only?
In my observation some women use a different kicking method in the ocean. I have not observed men with that difference so do not trouble them with the question.
Of course if a man does have that alternate method (which is not impossible) then he will know it and may well respond
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Post by hollandr on Sept 16, 2008 22:41:22 GMT
>body fat is key and salt water provides more lift
I had considered the salt as a factor as there are salt water swimming pools but I suspect that the kick is specific to the ocean rather than the salt.
But so far we have gathered no data here. Perhaps forumites are drawn from a different population
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Post by chriswitt on Sept 17, 2008 1:43:46 GMT
>Why is the question for women only? In my observation some women use a different kicking method in the ocean. I have not observed men with that difference so do not trouble them with the question. Of course if a man does have that alternate method (which is not impossible) then he will know it and may well respond Has been a while since I have swam (swum?) in the ocean but in my experience, I would have to say that the kicking takes a more rhythmic pulsing movement. This is done in tandem with the waves of the sea Using the waves to help propel you along. I have found that if you continue to kick when the wave is high, you need to speed the kicking in order not to be engulfed by the water. Also as the wave is subsiding I would decrease the kick in order to stop myself rising too high out of the water and coming down with a splash and choking!
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Post by synchronicity on Sept 17, 2008 7:57:46 GMT
Men have naturally stiffer ankle joints, so when swimming the crawl some of them hardly kick at all. A few actually find that they go faster without kicking, because their ankles are so stiff that they their feet remain virtually in the same position as when they're walking, causing extra drag in the water. Obviously, if you keep your feet at a right angle and kick down in the water, that does not propel you but is more akin to applying the brakes!! Some undiscerning swimming coaches can't understand that and just put it down to a 'weak' kick and force the poor devils to do laps and laps kicking hard, which of course doesn't solve anything and may just put them off swimming altogether, but that's a different kettle of fish.
Different stroke techniques may be required when swimming in the open sea, as there are currents and waves to which to adapt, which are absent in the somewhat artificial environment of a swimming pool. But clearly this applies to both men and women.
Russell seems to centre his argument on the additional subcutaneous fat stored by women's bodies, but apart form the fact that this varies greatly from individual to individual (there will be many males whose subcutaneous fat is more than the average female!) even in salt water the impact is not so great that a female swimmer is suddenly thrust out of the water!
The main difference in buoyancy between men and women occurs around the hips (and I have this from very technical swimming books). Therefore a woman's hips will tend to be slightly more buoyant than a man's. This is no big deal though. If you know your swimming technique, you will also know that head position and hip position inversely affect each other. Meaning, if a man's hips sink too deep, all he has to do is hold his head a bit lower in the water and his body alignment will immediately change, with his hips coming up. Conversely, a woman who found that her hips are so buoyant that her bum is sticking out of the water, simply has to raise her head a little and the hips will sink immediately. Again, not a big deal. Remember that the main reason we float (regardless of gender) is all that air stored in the lungs!
May I ask what is the relevance of this topic to Hidden Mysteries or indeed to Freemasonry? ;D
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Post by hollandr on Sept 17, 2008 9:20:53 GMT
>Russell seems to centre his argument on the additional subcutaneous fat stored by women's bodies,
You surprise me
Perhaps I should mention that the kicking style I have observed in some women in the ocean is with both legs held together moving as one. Whereas when not in the ocean they kick the legs separately like men and other women
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Post by synchronicity on Sept 17, 2008 9:34:12 GMT
>Perhaps I should mention that the kicking style I have observed in some women in the ocean is with both legs held together moving as one. Whereas when not in the ocean they kick the legs separately like men and other women Are you suggesting that they unconsciously switch to fly kicking? Are you sure they don't do it deliberately? I sometimes do that deliberately both in the pool and in open water (you can do it as a form of training or just for fun) but I have never done it unconsciously. In fact, if you are swimming front crawl in choppy waters or in a strong current, you are probably better off using the standard crawl kick (kicking legs separately) as it gives you more balance. Once again, what is the esoteric import of this topic?
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Post by hollandr on Sept 17, 2008 9:58:44 GMT
>Are you sure they don't do it deliberately?
The women I have discussed that with are quite clear which kick belongs where but they generally have no concept to explain it
I was wondering if any such women were here but apparently not. No matter
As to esoteric import, those with ocean kick may have some energetic connection to ocean beings that others do not
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Post by penfold on Sept 17, 2008 10:28:37 GMT
You mean like the man from atlantis (tv series)? He swam in a similar way to the descriptions given of mermen and mermaids, who may or may not have been seals or sealions viewed from a difference. Russell, do you mean swimming on the surface or under the waves, i.e. propulsion whilst diving?
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Post by synchronicity on Sept 17, 2008 10:33:28 GMT
As to esoteric import, those with ocean kick may have some energetic connection to ocean beings that others do not Well, I hope you don't mind me saying so, but that seems a bit far-fetched. Let me give you a bit of background, so you can see where I am coming from. The butterfly kick (if properly executed) is in fact not a kick at all, but an undulation of the whole body, with the legs and feet merely following in a whip-like manner. It is sometimes called 'dolphin kick' or, better still, 'dolphin movement,' which perhaps gives you a better idea of what's going on. Broadly speaking, it is the movement used by marine mammals such as dolphins, whales and even seals. A human trying to learn the dolphin kick would be well advised to stop thinking 'legs' altogether and start thinking more in terms of a 'giant tail-fin' and concentrate on creating a smooth flutter movement involving the whole spine. Interestingly enough (including from an esoteric point of view) this movement is actually supposed to start roughly from the area where the solar plexus is. A nice illustration can be seen here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUsCobD1mOUSo you might argue that if someone does it unconsciously there might be some form of regression to a previous existence as a marine mammal, or even a mermaid! A bit hard to prove though. I most cases what you actually see is people just bending both legs at the knee at the same time, and that's no fly or dolphin kick at all; it's just plain bad swimming! Sorry to sound so prosaic Russell, but charming as your 'mermaid theory' sounds, I find it a little unconvincing. Peace S
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
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Post by Tamrin on Sept 17, 2008 10:51:11 GMT
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Post by hollandr on Sept 17, 2008 11:06:04 GMT
Well I suppose I will have to find other aspects of human behaviour to investigate
It is a bit odd though that one of the women once told me that she could feel her tail squishing on the sand as she walked along the beach. I wonder if her etheric body was not an exact match of her physical body
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Sept 17, 2008 11:11:12 GMT
It is a bit odd though that one of the women once told me that she could feel her tail squishing on the sand as she walked along the beach. What conversation led to that comment?
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Post by synchronicity on Sept 17, 2008 11:39:20 GMT
Apart from having been issued with different sets of dangly bits at birth, men and women are fundamentally the same. So please let's not make things gender-specific unless it's absolutely necessary. Russell, how about researching mermen as a whole, not just the female of the 'species'?
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Post by maximus on Sept 17, 2008 11:57:05 GMT
Picture stretchie forum out of shapie.
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Post by leonardo on Sept 17, 2008 13:44:07 GMT
Picture stretchie forum out of shapie. Looks fine on my laptop. Maybe you need a larger monitor ;D
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Sept 17, 2008 13:51:52 GMT
.............kicking takes a more rhythmic pulsing movement. This is done in tandem with the waves of the sea Using the waves to help propel you along. I have found that if you continue to kick when the wave is high, you need to speed the kicking in order not to be engulfed by the water. Also as the wave is subsiding I would decrease the kick in order to stop myself rising too high out of the water and coming down with a splash and choking! I have not lived in the heart of Ohio all my life....I agree with the above analysis from chriswitt. I've not been to nice warm climes to swim...I lived in the state of Delaware for 8 years...the ocean off of Maryland and NewJersey can be quite cold and usually reqires a wetsuit in months outside June to September. I have not been in Lake Erie, but the other lakes here in Ohio and other parts of Tennessee, Kentucky, Penn., Maryland all have the feel of large swimming pools. I guess they are not as 'alive' as the ocean is. Perhaps it is the boyancy I am feeling...however that would not be unique to Female...my father agreed with me at the time when he first introduced me to the ocean when I was 13. Swimming: That is someting my dad and I always enjoyed. He passed in 1992. You have brought me many warm memories with your question. Thank you.
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Post by chriswitt on Sept 17, 2008 16:10:07 GMT
I guess they are not as 'alive' as the ocean is. Perhaps "as alive" but not subject to or influenced as much by the forces that drive the oceans.
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