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Post by hollandr on Sept 23, 2008 22:07:42 GMT
Another thread prompts me to consider the nature of a mystic experience.
It seems to me that the mystic experience is:
- higher, deeper or broader than typical human experience - not under the control of the human - is passive rather than active
If so then there are potentially higher/deeper/broader experiences that are under control by the human and/or are directed to achieve some purpose.
For the sake of a label we might call the latter occult experiences.
How would those concepts apply in a lodge?
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Post by maat on Sept 24, 2008 23:57:27 GMT
Another thread prompts me to consider the nature of a mystic experience. It seems to me that the mystic experience is: - higher, deeper or broader than typical human experience - not under the control of the human - is passive rather than active If so then there are potentially higher/deeper/broader experiences that are under control by the human and/or are directed to achieve some purpose. For the sake of a label we might call the latter occult experiences. How would those concepts apply in a lodge? I am not sure what you asking here Russell. I agree with your interpretation of both the mystic and the occultist and I think they both need each other - imagine the two pillars with those labels - we are shown to walk through the centre. So the mystic must learn how to use their gift in a practical down to earth way, and the occultist who knows how to do this needs to cease activity at times so as to gain instruction from heavenly realms. I am mystically inclined myself and I would hazard a guess that some of our regular posters work in a more practical manner (occult - and occult just means 'hidden' it is NOT a dirty word). I would also hazard a guess that if you took the 12 zodiacal personalities, you would find that 6 types would be one way inclined and 6 types the other. No different to the male/female thing. I think lodge places all of its members in both situations as they move through the chairs and chapters etc. In this way 'the stone' becomes more adaptable and thus more valuable to the Architect. Imagine a builder who only builds what the GA tells him to. A builder who builds, and not for his own glory. Maat
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Post by hollandr on Sept 25, 2008 1:15:45 GMT
>I am not sure what you asking here
I suppose I am musing as to whether the human contributes to the greater work in a mystical experience or is just a spectator.
If just a spectator then there should be a later stage where the true brother consciously contributes to the building of the heavenly temple.
Or are humans just decoration and audience for the Creation?
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Post by billmcelligott on Sept 25, 2008 3:07:17 GMT
Try this out Bro. Russell and let us see where it fits into your observations.
It was a Saturday Morning and I had finished work, I started early about 4.30 am and finished around 10.30.
When I got home I was in one of those odd moods, agitated and well a bit annoying to say the least. I was short and sharp with my Wife and the Kids. After I would say 30 mins, I took my Wife aside and explained I felt off-colour, not well and maybe this agitation was caused by a bug, maybe it was Flu.
I did my relaxation things, I can sleep anywhere anytime, I just sit and relax and off I go.
But not this time it seemed to be getting worse, I was thinking of going to Emergency at the Hospital. My Wife suggested I was having a panic attack, I never panic, I was at 29 Mr Cool. She kept asking me, what is it what do you want to do. For some reason I said , I have to go see my Dad.
She looked at me and said "You never go to your Dads on a Saturday Morning" this was mostly because of work, and he would be in the bookies anyway. But I insisted I have to go see Dad. I told her to stay put and I would take the van go see Dad, then if I still felt ill, I would go to the Hospital.
Within an hour I was at my Dad's, I found him on the floor, he had suffered a stroke. He was laying on the settee and had fell off and got wedged between the settee and the fireplace, but because of the stroke he could not move or get up. I picked him up and made him comfortable. I called 999 and within an hour he had been rushed to Hospital. He died in Hospital at about 3 pm
My panic attack started at the same time as Dad had the stroke, about 10 am. Now this happened a long time ago and I know Dad would have been satisfied with how things went, he was a practical man, he knew he would be gone one day and he made sure I knew that too.
So was this a Mystical experience ? I was certainly more than a Spectator, what caused this chain of events? Was it coincidence ?
My explanation is the Love between Father and Son is more powerful than any Magic.
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Post by hollandr on Sept 25, 2008 3:33:01 GMT
>So was this a Mystical experience ?
You must have been grateful to be with your father for his passing.
I have had somewhat similar occurances experiences where the other person's trauma was partially experienced by me also.
I tend to think of inter-connected energy/etheric bodies as the mechanism. If so then mothers must have a greater frequency of such events
When I posted above I was considering mystical experiences as concerning connection to the Source or the Oneness but perhaps the term should be used more broadly to include any interconnectedness with another being
With a broader definition the issue I raised may not be so relevant
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Post by maat on Sept 25, 2008 4:54:56 GMT
Apart from the loving interconnectedness I think that also, on another level, where time and space are non existant (or so they say), we know what is coming.
Two personal experiences spring to my mind. Once I awoke and felt like my stomach had sunk through to the centre of the Earth, and I had an overwhelming feeling of loss, such that I had never experienced before. It was gut wrenching and horrible. Two weeks later it was the exact same feeling I experienced when we were informed my 18yr old sister had been killed in a pedestrian crossing going to work. Despite great losses since the feelings were different.
The other experience was to do with my dear father's death. He had been hospitalised for some time and it was apparent he was not coming home. My mother being an invalid, it was left to me to fit daily hospital visits into an already busy day working etc etc. It eventually became an effort to get out of bed in the morning, I was so exhausted. Then one morning I woke, jumped out of bed, found myself humming on the way to work and remember thinking I had not felt this good in a looong time, my energy had returned to normal. When I got to work I received the phone call to say my father had passed away during the night. It was as if I already knew his suffering had come to an end and all was well with him.
I really do think there is a dimension where all is known and it is probably a place we visit whilst asleep. Maybe this is the same place where our significant dreams and those instant answers to problems come from.
Maat
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Post by lauderdale on Sept 25, 2008 6:31:14 GMT
Bro Bill, I would call that a Mystic Experience of a telepathic nature. When she was alive there was a very strong psychic bond between myself and my late mother. Often she would phone up knowing I was feeling ill or unhappy or had other problems although to save her worries I never told her or my father with whom I do not have such a Mystic bond. She just knew! Bear in mind that I live in Reading and my parents, now my father only, live in Glasgow and we only saw each other 2 or 3 times a year.
My Mother had "The Sight" as did her mother even more so and Gran was of Scots Highland Stock, I have it to an extent. My Father does not have any psychic gifts as far as he and I are aware.
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Post by billmcelligott on Sept 25, 2008 19:31:12 GMT
Yes Russell I was very happy to have had the chance to see him just before.
My Dad trained me well I think, he had been round the world during the War and his generation picked up many sound bites, sayings , which made up for their lack of verbal skills.
He would constantly repeat things, I have continued doing this, now my son has picked it up from me and my Grandson I noticed has also started with the same sound bites.
Dad would say things like, " If I die tonight at least I don't have to get up for work in the morning".
" Believe in God Son, because if you get to the pearly gates and there is no one there, you have lost nothing, if St. Peter steps forward, he will think your one of the righteous".
" Never expect anything and you will never be disappointed".
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Post by lauderdale on Sept 25, 2008 20:03:33 GMT
Bro Bill, we have had our differences. However in that experience I can empathise with you. I too have experienced the "Dark Night of the Soul" as I sat with my father at her bed in the ICU at the hospital and watched my Mother dying. For her sake and that of my father it was good that I was there, for my sake, I cannot say even seven years after the event. At her final moment she tried to tell me something and I could see her lips move but unfortunately the oxygen mask, by now a useless attachment, prevented me from hearing. I am sure it was important but can only conjecture what, in her ultimate time in this life, she wished to tell me.
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Post by billmcelligott on Sept 25, 2008 22:39:39 GMT
Steve, exactly why I will always use another of Dads saying, dont leave it untill your at the funeral to say something nice about a man. I embarrass Brothers sometimes when I jump up and say 'out loud' [not the English way is it] that someone has done something particularly worthy of praise.
I go to too many funerals these days where people say such lovely things about the Guy they could not stand the week before.
Your Mother did not have to say anything Brother, you knew she loved you, so it was probably something about feeding the cat.
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