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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2008 15:15:57 GMT
Bro Architekt
Although I am sympathetic with your posts to a certain extent.
This Forum is not here to heckle someone inot doing something that you want them to do.
Bro Brandt has answered our questions as well as I can expect. If you are looking for more I would suggest you will not find it here.
I have no problem with Brandt or his GL. I also do not expect him to be answerable for it as I dont expect you to be answerable for yours
Please treat all the masons on this board the same and with the same respect you hope to be treated.
You will find if you are less agreesive you may get more reponsive answers. After all this Board is all about learning and in particular learning about all types of Freemasonry not just the variety practised by the Majority of English or American masons
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Nov 6, 2008 16:31:08 GMT
Bro. Arch, I feel I should add to what Bro. MP said simply because I think I understand you a bit better than most here.
I recommend an exercise to you. Refer your questions, internally, to the UGLE.
This is something I tried to get you to do a bit earlier this thread. You asked about the GOdUSA's lineage and suggested that Obedience is "self-erected". Dance around it all one may, the original GLs (the GLE among them) were, indeed, "self-erected" (they didn't need to "claim" it, they clearly were).
*I* don't see anything especially wrong with that, largely because I accept the idea of received wisdom, which I truly believe was the case with our early speculative founders. Yes, I know they were intellectual party animals out to have a good time. They didn't even take notes. However, and truly, wisdom can be received and passed on without understanding it. And so it happened.
Anyway, I encourage the exercise because I think it would help you with a premise issue I believe you are having. I don't mean to get all Ayn Randian on you but, fact is contraditions do NOT exist. Any time you think you are faced with a contradition, check your premises to see which of them is wrong. Then update them accordingly.
If you don't want to do that then I'm going to VERY strong recommend this: you treat other Brothers here - regardless of whether you consider them Brothers - the way you would, yourself, like to be treated.
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 6, 2008 17:01:30 GMT
OK, I think there are some misunderstandings of the points made.
Like many things in Freemasonry it depends where you are standing.
No one has suggested that GOoUS has done anything wrong. As MP said there is plenty of precedence for self Chartering. Indeed the four Lodges that founded Modern Freemasonry in 1717 must have self Chartered.
I too have no Problem with Brandt or the GOdF. Indeed I have a lot of respect for Jeff and many of the Originators of the GOoUS.
Let us remember it was architect who started this thread. Others like myself have asked questions, maybe difficult questions. No one insists on an answer, that is purely voluntary.
What I want to see and I am determined to see it, that all those that say I am a Freemason are truthful, accurate and honest in what they publish. Now how do we do this, by asking questions.
I am open and prepared to answer questions and be examined in all things I do and say on the Internet, I expect the same of all who use the internet to publish their ideas. If we are not prepared to be challenged and examined then we fall into the same category as the conspiracy theorist, who just eternally repeat the same thing over and over until the world gives up even asking.
A willingness at all times to undergo examination when called upon. But as MP said you have to be called upon in a reasonable manner.
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Post by leonardo on Nov 6, 2008 18:00:25 GMT
Perhaps a reminder of our forum's guideline is called for:
This Forum was instituted to permit a free discussion of ALL aspects of Freemasonry and associated topics without fear or favour. Whatever the Affiliation of the posters may be, and that varies, the Forum does NOT bow the knee to any Grand Lodge nor any Commerical Undertaking. Be it "Regular", "Irregular", Male Only, Ladies Masonry or Co-Masonry, ALL are free to post here. HOWEVER due respect is to be shown to the various Grand Lodges and Masonic Bodies in existance and any criticism couched in polite and reasonable language.
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