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Post by gingwa on Nov 24, 2008 1:38:06 GMT
I've wanted to be a freemason for a very long time, I've read countless books on freemasonry and am just absorbed and completely enthralled with it, have been for many a year. I befriended a Freemason, who happens to be high up in his lodge, he say's he will get me in, the only obstacle being the second man to nominate me. But we are working around that. Main thing is, I lied to him in one aspect, I don't believe in god, I'm a very out spoken Atheist, I know that to be a mason is to believe in god, and I very very much want to be a mason, but I really really don't believe in god either, which I know is a necessity. What do I do? Hold my hands up and say, hey, I cant be a mason, because I'm too rationally minded? or lie and pretend I believe in god? Or, is freemasonry (hope it is) becoming more slack on deities?!
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Post by delux on Nov 24, 2008 2:16:26 GMT
Hello and welcome.I strongly advise you not to lie. Be true to yourself. One of the main things to remember is that trust is very important.
I am an Atheist myself. There are plenty of Masonic orders that do allow Atheists.
The Grand Orient of the USA George Washington Union Le Droit Humain USA M.E.A.P.R.M.M.
Good luck with your search.
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Post by gingwa on Nov 24, 2008 2:35:23 GMT
Hello and welcome.I strongly advise you not to lie. Be true to yourself. One of the main things to remember is that trust is very important. I am an Atheist myself. There are plenty of Masonic orders that do allow Atheists. The Grand Orient of the USA George Washington Union Le Droit Humain USA M.E.A.P.R.M.M. Good luck with your search. Thankyou for answering me, however, I am to be interviewed in March next year and have been informed that one of the questions that will be asked of me is if I believe in god, to which the mason who is introducing me has told me I must say yes. So did you have to answer this?
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Post by delux on Nov 24, 2008 2:51:14 GMT
You need to tell the truth. If you want to join your local neighborhood lodge then they will deny you. The Orders that I listed are all avalible in the USA and they will admit an atheist.
The answer is an atheist can become a Freemason but you need to work a little harder.
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Post by paulh on Nov 24, 2008 3:06:10 GMT
gingwa
I suspect that everyone with strong moral values instinctively accepts the proposition that Life stems from an ultimate Creative Source.
If you believe (or hope) that Life has a meaning then there is room for you in Masonry
If however you believe that Life is meaningless and are satisfied with that belief then I doubt that Masonry will be comfortable for you or with you
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Post by delux on Nov 24, 2008 3:14:42 GMT
I would argue that atheists value life more than any other group. We believe that life is a precious gift and we need to live it to the fullest.
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Post by maat on Nov 24, 2008 4:38:53 GMT
I would argue that atheists value life more than any other group. We believe that life is a precious gift and we need to live it to the fullest. And others don't? Even 'dumb' animals value their lives, just watch them. Mind you, I must admit, I don't feel a need to live life to the fullest, I just do what comes naturally. So far so good. If I fell off the twig tomorrow I would have to say I was happy the way things worked out (with a little bit of help from my friends). Delux, I think this would make a mighty fine topic for a thread. Good one. Maat PS - Reincarnation makes just as much sense as anything else... life is deciduous (or evergreen like the acacia ), regeneration, evolution, what goes round comes round, been here done that, tit for tat, here we go again. The G-enerator O-f D-imensions is the Ringmaster.. the Hurdy Girdy Pole, the Plumbline?!
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Post by maat on Nov 24, 2008 4:40:32 GMT
I am to be interviewed in March next year and have been informed that one of the questions that will be asked of me is if I believe in god, to which the mason who is introducing me has told me I must say yes. Can't see that Freemasonry will mean much to you if you don't believe in a Divine Intelligence of some sort. Is your motivation merely curiosity or are you motivated to IMPROVE YOURSELF and thereby help make the world a better place? Maat I'm really having problems with the idea of a Bro encouraging you to lie outright to get into Masonry. Paulh's words may give you pause for thought ... I would like to encourage you not to lie and to follow up on the leads that delux posted. (Lie to get in and you will probably lie to get out)
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Post by cosmicthought on Nov 24, 2008 4:55:39 GMT
Greeting's Gingwa I agree that you need to be honest with yourself and let the brother know you are an Atheist,and a Freemason can be an Atheist! The International Order of Co-Freemasonry Le Droit Humain states that "Is belief in God a requirement to be a Freemason? In those branches of Freemasonry that work “to the glory of the Great Architect of the Universe” (which includes the English-speaking branches of the Order), members must profess a belief in an intelligence that guides the world. However, Freemasons are not required to hold any particular beliefs about that guiding intelligence or to conceive of it in any particular way. The language we use about it is like most of our language about great concepts: it is poetical, metaphorical, and figurative. Freemasons conceive of “God” in a variety of ways, according to their backgrounds. The way they talk about “God” is symbolical." and we stress Unity of all Human's. www.comasonic.org/faqaf.html
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Post by delux on Nov 24, 2008 6:28:28 GMT
Freemasonry is a progressive science, veiled in allagory and illustrated by symbols. Many Atheists are interested and find value in scientific persuits.
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Post by leonardo on Nov 24, 2008 8:01:09 GMT
I would argue that atheists value life more than any other group. We believe that life is a precious gift and we need to live it to the fullest. With respect this is a very arrogant statement to make. Please add more as to why you feel this to be the case. I am sure Christians, or those from any other belief system would also say that life is a precious gift.
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 24, 2008 9:29:27 GMT
"I am sure Christians, or those from any other belief system would also say that life is a precious gift."
Indeed so Bro Leo, think of Mother Teresa of Calcutta and the Dalia Lama.
As many others have stated an Atheist can be a Freemason in Grand Orient Freemasonry.
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 24, 2008 9:36:15 GMT
Co Masonry would seem to be your best bet then. Mainstream ritual will always lead you to a proclamation of the supremacy of the one God. It is not so much as will you be accepted, more why would you want to join.
Certainly you should not start a Masonic career on a lie. To join a mainstream Lodge you must answer the question, do you believe in a supreme being. If you say NO, then you can not be admitted.
Delux is mixing the thread with another concept, Atheists value life more ? well I don't buy that one. The question would then follow who's life your own or another's. I am not aware of the sacrifices Atheists have made on behalf of their fellow creatures, it may have happened but no one has brought it to my attention.
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Post by leonardo on Nov 24, 2008 12:37:10 GMT
Co Masonry would seem to be your best bet then. Mainstream ritual will always lead you to a proclamation of the supremacy of the one God. It should be noted for clarification that not all branches of Co-Freemasonry are available to those who profess atheistic views. In fact, a prerequisite of my own Order (LDH UK) is that a potential Candidate has a belief in a Supreme Being.
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Post by corab on Nov 24, 2008 12:48:28 GMT
Welcome on board, Gingwa.
The three grand pillars of Freemasonry are Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth. The latter of these three should give you a good idea as to what to do.
Never, ever compromise your integrity -- no matter how much you may desire that which you are considering comprising it for. It doesn't pay off.
There are Orders which do not require candidate to profess to a belief in a Supreme Being; these are likely to be more suited to you than those which do, and access to which would come at the price of a word broken before it was even given.
To my mind, entering the Order on the basis of a lie invalidates everything that comes after.
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Post by corab on Nov 24, 2008 12:53:12 GMT
Co Masonry would seem to be your best bet then. How so, Bro:. Bill? The British Federation of the International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain" asserts a belief in a Creative Principle -- I'm not aware of Gingwa having spoken of such a belief; only that he(?) is a very outspoken atheist. S&F, Cora
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Post by cosmicthought on Nov 24, 2008 12:56:06 GMT
The same question is asked in Co-Masonry
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 24, 2008 13:16:37 GMT
Co Masonry would seem to be your best bet then. How so, Bro:. Bill? The British Federation of the International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain" asserts a belief in a Creative Principle -- I'm not aware of Gingwa having spoken of such a belief; only that he(?) is a very outspoken atheist. S&F, Cora I just followed the trail laid by Delux, having professed to be an atheist I assumed some knowledge was attached:
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Post by maximus on Nov 24, 2008 14:19:03 GMT
You are first prepared to be made a Mason in your heart, gingwa. If your heart is conflicted, you are not prepared.
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Nov 24, 2008 15:08:26 GMT
............We believe that life is a precious gift .......... A gift from whom? ....who has given that gift?
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